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Re: Direct Clearance [Re: joegreen] #4630944
01/10/18 10:46 PM
01/10/18 10:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,288
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,288
Fort Worth, Texas
.125" is a good target spec for total apply pin travel with NO Gasket or Spacer during the check procedure. You are doing it correctly!

To be completely honest, .176" would run for a while in most cases....... Forever in a light car like my Camaro, Way shorter
amount of time in a hard working plow truck.

What causes the loss of Rear Band apply on TH400/4L80E is the apply piston bottoming out against the case. The machined depth of the piston bore varies from Case to Case.

*Remove the apply pin & cushion spring from the piston.
*Install the piston in the case all the way to bottom.
*Measure & record the depth with a dial caliper. (Mark the point on the Case where your taking the measurement as the the bore is machined at a angle)

*Install the Apply Pin back into the Piston with the Washer & E-Clip. Leave the Cushion Spring & Spring Seat off for this test!
*Install the Piston back in the case along with your test tool, Tighten the check bolt to 55 inch pounds.
*Force the Piston down against the Washer.
*Take another Piston depth measurement at the same spot as before.

Subtract the two readings from each other......This will give you exactly how much piston travel you have before the Piston bottoms out against the case.

The CK spacer just prevents the Band from dragging on the Reaction Carrier which TH400's are notorious for, But can be used with a longer Pin than what would normally be allowed in a stock set-up giving you more "Travel to Bottom" distance.


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/Auto
Re: Direct Clearance [Re: joegreen] #4630947
01/10/18 10:51 PM
01/10/18 10:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,288
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,288
Fort Worth, Texas
BTW.....Love the tool!!!


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/Auto
Re: Direct Clearance [Re: joegreen] #4631837
01/11/18 09:15 PM
01/11/18 09:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 838
NY
joegreen Offline OP
joegreen  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 838
NY
My Piston travel before it bottoms out is .182". Does that sound right. That's the distance from the Piston pin and Piston being tightened to 55inlb and the band at full grab to no pin installed and the Piston all the way bottomed out in the case bore.


1978 Chevrolet k20
Engine: Delo 10w30xle
Transmission: Castrol transmax dex/merc

1984 Mercedes-Benz 300 turbo diesel
Engine: Delo 400 15w40le
Re: Direct Clearance [Re: joegreen] #4631841
01/11/18 09:18 PM
01/11/18 09:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 838
NY
joegreen Offline OP
joegreen  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 838
NY
My Piston travel before it bottoms out is .182". Does that sound right. That's the distance from the Piston pin and Piston being tightened to 55inlb and the band at full grab to no pin installed and the Piston all the way bottomed out in the case bore.


1978 Chevrolet k20
Engine: Delo 10w30xle
Transmission: Castrol transmax dex/merc

1984 Mercedes-Benz 300 turbo diesel
Engine: Delo 400 15w40le
Re: Direct Clearance [Re: joegreen] #4631843
01/11/18 09:21 PM
01/11/18 09:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 838
NY
joegreen Offline OP
joegreen  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 838
NY
Woops double posted. So what does that number actually mean and how is it correlated to my apply pin taking .176" from rest until the band is applied?

I bought a extendo pin for the reverse pin to make it longer. I didn't really feel like welding and grinding on the current pin out in the cold. I can grind this extendo pin if it's too long.


1978 Chevrolet k20
Engine: Delo 10w30xle
Transmission: Castrol transmax dex/merc

1984 Mercedes-Benz 300 turbo diesel
Engine: Delo 400 15w40le
Re: Direct Clearance [Re: joegreen] #4633058
01/12/18 11:07 PM
01/12/18 11:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,288
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,288
Fort Worth, Texas
Maybe this will help explain what I'm trying to convey here Joe?

*Remove the apply pin & cushion spring from the piston.
*Install the piston in the case all the way to bottom.
*Measure & record the depth with a dial caliper. (Mark the point on the Case where your taking the measurement as the the bore is machined at a angle)

*Install the Apply Pin back into the Piston with the Washer & E-Clip. Leave the Cushion Spring & Spring Seat off for this test!
*Install the Piston back in the case along with your test tool, Tighten the check bolt to 55 inch pounds.
*Force the Piston down against the Washer.
*Take another Piston depth measurement at the same spot as before.

Subtract the two readings from each other......This will give you exactly how much piston travel you have before the Piston bottoms out against the case.


Last edited by clinebarger; 01/12/18 11:12 PM.

2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/Auto
Re: Direct Clearance [Re: joegreen] #4633843
01/13/18 05:57 PM
01/13/18 05:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 838
NY
joegreen Offline OP
joegreen  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 838
NY
Holy moly I hope you didn't draw that all for me. It's much appreciated. The distance to be calculated came out to .182".

Last edited by joegreen; 01/13/18 05:57 PM.

1978 Chevrolet k20
Engine: Delo 10w30xle
Transmission: Castrol transmax dex/merc

1984 Mercedes-Benz 300 turbo diesel
Engine: Delo 400 15w40le
Re: Direct Clearance [Re: joegreen] #4633995
01/13/18 09:09 PM
01/13/18 09:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,288
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,288
Fort Worth, Texas
It would seem you have PLENTY of "wear" room before the piston bottoms, Goes to show the variance in the machining & some techniques DO NOT account for this!

One last test before you continue......

*Remove the Pin from Servo Piston.
*Install the 2nd Accumulator Piston in the Servo Piston (The large Accumulator sealing ring will help hold the accumulator piston in place)
*Install the Servo Piston in the Case & push it to bottom.
*Take another depth measurement.

If this depth measurement is now LESS than the "bottomed" piston measurement you took earlier Subtract the 2 readings, Then Subtract that from .182".


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/Auto
Re: Direct Clearance [Re: joegreen] #4634078
01/13/18 11:07 PM
01/13/18 11:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 838
NY
joegreen Offline OP
joegreen  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 838
NY
Ok. I got it because the 2nd accumulator Piston might limit the travel of the accumulator Piston. I'll try that tomorrow.


1978 Chevrolet k20
Engine: Delo 10w30xle
Transmission: Castrol transmax dex/merc

1984 Mercedes-Benz 300 turbo diesel
Engine: Delo 400 15w40le
Re: Direct Clearance [Re: joegreen] #4634821
01/14/18 04:55 PM
01/14/18 04:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 838
NY
joegreen Offline OP
joegreen  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 838
NY
The 2nd accumulator Piston does not change when the reverse apply Piston bottoms out. I can shake the case and hear the 2nd accumulator Piston sliding in and out while the reverse apply Piston is bottomed out in it's bore. I Also verified the the 2nd accumulator Piston does not change when the reverse apply Piston bottoms out with a dial indicator.

I made this little indent in the reverse apply Piston so I could use the dial indicator in the same spot every time.


Last edited by joegreen; 01/14/18 04:58 PM.

1978 Chevrolet k20
Engine: Delo 10w30xle
Transmission: Castrol transmax dex/merc

1984 Mercedes-Benz 300 turbo diesel
Engine: Delo 400 15w40le
Re: Direct Clearance [Re: joegreen] #4637642
01/17/18 12:33 PM
01/17/18 12:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 838
NY
joegreen Offline OP
joegreen  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 838
NY
I put the extendo pin on today. Had to grind the ridges off the pin to get it to fit. The instructions said to grind them off.




Last edited by joegreen; 01/17/18 12:34 PM.

1978 Chevrolet k20
Engine: Delo 10w30xle
Transmission: Castrol transmax dex/merc

1984 Mercedes-Benz 300 turbo diesel
Engine: Delo 400 15w40le
Re: Direct Clearance [Re: joegreen] #4665340
02/13/18 11:29 PM
02/13/18 11:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,508
Shippensburg, PA
novadude Offline
novadude  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,508
Shippensburg, PA
This has been an interesting thread to follow. Any updates? Is it done yet?

Re: Direct Clearance [Re: novadude] #4710920
03/29/18 08:58 PM
03/29/18 08:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 838
NY
joegreen Offline OP
joegreen  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 838
NY
Originally Posted By: novadude
This has been an interesting thread to follow. Any updates? Is it done yet?
Not yet. Im still working on it slowly between school and work. My plan is to get it done before july 4th.


1978 Chevrolet k20
Engine: Delo 10w30xle
Transmission: Castrol transmax dex/merc

1984 Mercedes-Benz 300 turbo diesel
Engine: Delo 400 15w40le
Re: Direct Clearance [Re: joegreen] #4710921
03/29/18 09:02 PM
03/29/18 09:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 838
NY
joegreen Offline OP
joegreen  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 838
NY
So I have a question about my governor tubes. I was looking at them today and where it bends it looks almost like someone took a hammer to the tubes and made some flat spots on the bend. Do I need new governor tubes? Its hard to tell from the photo but its definately not a smooth round radius.



1978 Chevrolet k20
Engine: Delo 10w30xle
Transmission: Castrol transmax dex/merc

1984 Mercedes-Benz 300 turbo diesel
Engine: Delo 400 15w40le
Re: Direct Clearance [Re: joegreen] #4710942
03/29/18 09:16 PM
03/29/18 09:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,288
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,288
Fort Worth, Texas
Don't worry about that, Just make sure they seat in the case & the governor thimble filter is in place. Tweak them as needed. Finding a nice virgin set is getting harder & harder!


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/Auto
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