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#4632013 - 01/11/18 11:30 PM Re: Danika loses ride, finally [Re: Panzerman]
JohnnyJohnson Online   content


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2369
Loc: Wet side WA
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
I think your all.missing the point. The Romans used the sports to distract simple mindset from the corruption and the utter unraveling of Rome. Distract the masses.
Still works to this day.


thumbsup approved
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#4632078 - 01/12/18 02:43 AM Re: Danika loses ride, finally [Re: billt460]
DoubleWasp Offline


Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 5227
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Originally Posted By: billt460
Today we look at past ancient history, and wonder how people in Roman times could watch as Gladiators killed each other. And how people cheered while some poor, weak guy was eaten alive by lions. All for the sole purpose of someone else's entertainment. In another generation many will look at the failure of the NFL and professional boxing in much the same manner.

While some may find it entertaining watching opposing guys bash their heads together, or beat each other to a bloody pulp. Many are looking at the whole thing, and are forming other more educated opinions. There are simply much better things to do with your time. Especially when you consider the cost to attend these events today. Families will instead start spending time together. They'll start paying more attention to one another. Instead of cheering while another player is carted off the field on a stretcher. Or some 25 year old boxer who is so punch drunk, can no longer give an interview and make any sense.

Auto racing is the exception to all of this because it is dependent on technology. Both to make the cars go fast, but more importantly to make them safer in the process. The problem is the way it is being managed. Like professional football and boxing, greed has taken over and made it unaffordable for the masses. The owners haven't figured out these masses have a limited amount of disposable income to spend on the weekend to watch their product.

And they've tried so many stupid things to "improve" it, all they have accomplished is they've managed to make it all worse. Because the people now in charge never had the talent to manage it in the first place.


That's the biggest problem right there. Every "improvement" they make is not to try to convince people to come. It's to convince people to drop major coin.

This is something I understand very well in business, because my marine business is mostly big $$$/event, whereas my produce distribution is a lot of decidedly smaller transactions....but a LOT of them.

But there is a difference. Restaurants are not going to just decide not to buy produce, like people are not going to decide to stop eating. They can and will decide not to go put their butt in a seat at an arena or stadium.

What they are killing is their culture. Culture is why these sports are so popular. If Dad doesn't take his kid to football or other sports events because to go will cost the same as his mortgage payment, then why is Son going to get interested enough to do it himself?

Unfortunately for them, recent history and the present are littered with giants too dumb to recognize why people love and hate them, and certainly too dumb to do the right thing to keep people onboard.

Football is still the #1 TV event, and Blockbuster is still the #1 video rental retail store. Yes, I realize there is a difference, but the old adage of "we're so huge that we can't lose" just isn't true anymore.

Why? Because if you look at the death of any giant, you're going to see that it always begins with a small decline, followed by a free fall that no amount of action can help them recover from.

Right now it seems unlikely, but what happens when the next big thing comes along? The next Amazon, next internet, next streaming video, etc.?

Big companies still haven't learned that they need to stop angering their customers, and they need to be dug into their culture with as many roots as possible, or the next big thing can kill them.
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#4632092 - 01/12/18 04:04 AM Re: Danika loses ride, finally [Re: IndyFan]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4049
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: IndyFan
But don't tell other people what they can and can't do.


Show me where in this thread I ever said that?

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#4632096 - 01/12/18 04:37 AM Re: Danika loses ride, finally [Re: Indydriver]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4049
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Here are some facts regarding this past NFL season.

1.) At the end of this year, the league lost about 10% of its television viewers in the just-completed season. A slide that continued into last weekend's first round of the playoffs.

2.) That fact is, believe it or not, NFL players disrespecting the flag and National Anthem turned millions of Americans away from pro football. It's not the sport itself, as last Monday's college football title game attracted 13% more viewers than the year before.

3.) Monday night NFL football games on ESPN averaged about 11-million viewers this season. The Alabama-Georgia college game, also on ESPN on a Monday night, had more than 28-million.

These are huge number losses for the NFL, that up until a year ago didn't exist. The NFL always beat college football across the board. Actions have consequences. People do not always react in the way they are predicted to. We saw it a year ago on November 8th. And we've seen it all year long in decreased NFL viewership. And don't think they're not going to worry about a 10% loss. They are because their advertisers are. That 10% translates into hundreds of millions of dollars over the course of a full season, and 256 NFL games played.

And once viewership is lost in a sport, it is very difficult to get it back. Especially when much of the reason revolves around the players acting like disrespectful idiots. This is devastating news for a sport that used to own a day of the week. One they took away from the church.

NASCAR has other issues more directly related to management. Or rather the lack of it. They seem to be driving their own brand straight into the ground. Wasp is correct in that failure of these big businesses starts with a small, unstoppable decline. They then proceed into a downward spiral that continues until impact. Just like JFK Jr's. plane did. Companies like Sears and J.C. Penny's are just about ready to brace for impact. The NFL and NASCAR have just now lost their orientation, and have entered the spiral. But it's only a question of time before all of them crash and burn.

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#4632568 - 01/12/18 03:26 PM Re: Danika loses ride, finally [Re: billt460]
Virtus_Probi Offline


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 3789
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: IndyFan
Wow, that's like someone calling a political leader a Nazi. It shows a complete and utter lack of understanding of history and the significance of what happened at that time. It also disrespects the victims of the practice. Besides, if you think the purpose of the Roman blood lust spectator sports was soley entertainment, you need to study further. There were much more insideous purposes to it than just that.

Today's sports voluntary, unlike the situation for Gladiators, and they are nowhere near what you make it out to be.


The point is that it would never fly today. Regardless of the reasoning you or anyone else tries to attach to it. The NFL and boxing are traveling down the exact same road. As I said, both have outlived their time. Attitude and attendance shows this to be true.


I see the NFL's present issues as predominantly political, although I think the concussion "crisis" and allegations of coverups are contributing to its problems.

Regarding boxing, I think it is being overshadowed by far more violent and bloody MMA fights...those are more like street brawls and I don't see a popularity issue with those. Mayweather may have been the wealthier man in the McGregor fight, but I don't think he was the more popular one...

I see things going to other way in the future than (I think) you do and still think that we will see true blood sports conducted on the high seas or in failed states being marketed online...and I think they will be popular. Real gladiators will make a comeback.

Regarding Roman gladiators, munera were used as a form of social control for at least 400 years and I guess you might have to argue that it probably worked given that Rome was probably the most stable large empire in history. The need to feed the masses bread and entertain them with gladiatorial games and chariot races (the latter probably the more popular of the two and also extremely dangerous) was really rooted in the martial character and expansionism of the Empire...the population of the cities swelled after the Punic, Greek, Social, Asian, and civil wars of ~250-30BC due to citizen-soldiers returning from extremely long periods of service to find their farms ruined due to neglect and probably with no heirs to pass them on to even if they were restored. They really had nowhere else to go...
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#4632647 - 01/12/18 04:27 PM Re: Danika loses ride, finally [Re: Indydriver]
DoubleWasp Offline


Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 5227
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL
If anything, I think blood sports will only grow in popularity as civilization gets more civilized.

Modern people love blood sports because it is something different from their mundane lives. Of course, there are even more who like it because of other reasons, like the competition, strategy, etc.

That we have come from slaves forced to fight, to where there are no shortage of free volunteers really says something. There are some people out there who are not going to be content to sit at a desk in front of a screen for a living.

But MMA is definitely the "next big thing" that's putting boxing where it belongs. It's been so lame and corrupt for so long, it shouldn't come as a shock.
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#4632657 - 01/12/18 04:32 PM Re: Danika loses ride, finally [Re: Virtus_Probi]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4049
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
.........I see the NFL's present issues as predominantly political, although I think the concussion "crisis" and allegations of coverups are contributing to its problems.


I agree, and I think the head injury problem is going to ultimately sink the NFL far deeper, than it losing control of it's players over stupid political displays. Where it's going to trickle down is though an increasingly shrinking talent pool to draft from. Today you have parents who sue cities and municipalities, because their kids fall out of Jungle Jim's at the local park, and break their arms. What are these same parents going to do when their kids are more severely hurt playing football at the grade school and high school level? They'll simply sue for even larger amounts. And with today's liberal, snowflake, sympathetic juries, they'll get it.

It's not going to take long before many of these schools simply start dropping their football programs. The same way the cities are dismantling their Jungle Jims, and putting sand boxes in their place. Less legal risk. Yeah, it's stupid, but it is already happening. When this expands to enough schools, fewer players will be playing football at the college level. This all boils down to slimmer pickings for the NFL.

Heck, now you even have Brett Farve, the NFL's golden boy, saying publically he doesn't want his grandson playing organized football, because he feels the injury risk is too high. Mothers and fathers are going to listen to this guy. His words carry a lot of weight. None of this is good news for the NFL. Now, and even more so down the line.

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#4633133 - 01/13/18 12:00 AM Re: Danika loses ride, finally [Re: Indydriver]
DoubleWasp Offline


Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 5227
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL
I'm glad a grew up in a time of risky fun for children.

One day when I have children, they'll never get to experience such things because DCF will lock me up and take me away for letting them walk a block to their school.
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#4633156 - 01/13/18 01:20 AM Re: Danika loses ride, finally [Re: DoubleWasp]
Brad_C Offline


Registered: 07/27/12
Posts: 605
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I'm glad a grew up in a time of risky fun for children.

One day when I have children, they'll never get to experience such things because DCF will lock me up and take me away for letting them walk a block to their school.


I keep telling my wife we need to move into a house with a bigger yard to give the kids adequate room to go and hurt themselves. I fear the oncoming cotton wool society we are breeding.

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#4634689 - 01/14/18 01:28 PM Re: Danika loses ride, finally [Re: DoubleWasp]
Toto Offline


Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 366
Loc: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Back on topic, from what I am reading, she hopes to do Daytona and Indy and then retire completely?


I do not know what Danicas Daytona 500 plans are but Ganassi Racing is no longer in talks with her and I do not know of any remotely competitive rides available, just saying!
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#4634724 - 01/14/18 02:11 PM Re: Danika loses ride, finally [Re: Indydriver]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4049
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
She thus far has secured nothing for either race. Ganassi Racing is done talking with her, and hasn't offered her anything for either Indy or Daytona. Indy is still a long way away, but the Daytona 500 is just over a month away.

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#4635367 - 01/15/18 05:20 AM Re: Danika loses ride, finally [Re: Indydriver]
DoubleWasp Offline


Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 5227
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Appears to be a "your last one was your last one" situation.

Her statements about never going back to Indy cars is probably haunting her right now. Who's going to sponsor a turncoat that has little chance of winning?
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#4637017 - 01/16/18 05:51 PM Re: Danika loses ride, finally [Re: Indydriver]
PimTac Offline


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 3447
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
Her attention seems to be more towards Aaron Rodgers than racing. Plus, Iíve heard she has a excercise video program that is popular among a certain segment.

As for football, it does seem to be on the way of the dinosaurs as it is. Iím guessing equipment and uniform changes will be coming to try to prevent injuries. The players today are so much stronger than during the old days. Since Iím a old timer, give me Dick Butkus or The other greats of decades ago.
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#4637117 - 01/16/18 07:26 PM Re: Danika loses ride, finally [Re: PimTac]
spiderbypass Offline


Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 415
Loc: Stewartstown PA
Good non politically correct picture of Chuck Bednaric played linebacker and center for Eagles. This picture was taken after Eagles beat packers in 1960-Eagles last championship.

https://goo.gl/images/J2Rorh
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#4637315 - 01/17/18 02:37 AM Re: Danika loses ride, finally [Re: PimTac]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4049
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: PimTac
...... The players today are so much stronger than during the old days. Since Iím a old timer, give me Dick Butkus or The other greats of decades ago.


I remember when the Super Bowl winning 1985 Chicago Bears signed William (The Refrigerator) Perry. The media went wild because of his then enormous size. I believe he was right around the 325 pound mark at the time. Even Mike Ditka made comments about how big he was in regards to him staying healthy. When the Bears signed him there was a story in the Chicago Sun Times that the team took him out to Carson's for dinner. (A popular Chicago restaurant for ribs). He reportedly ate 4 slabs.

Today Perry would be an also ran on any NFL front line. Nothing special. The size and strength of these front lines on these NFL teams just keeps increasing. There is no regard for long term health issues. Basically it simply revolves around gaining as much weight as you possibly can, and still remain somewhat mobile and "fast". What happens to your cardiovascular system or your brain 15 or 20 years down the road is of no concern of the NFL. Much like a old porn star, you're simply used up goods by then. And they couldn't be bothered about your welfare at that point anyway. Sad that a once great sport has come to this.

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