No filtration at all experiment.

[goodtimes]

None of this matters. If the particle count is too low to make the Fram Ultra the King, some will say the particle counter is too old a new counter will find more particles. That is how it is around here.
My grandfather bought his last car a 1958 Chevrolet, and it had no oil filter. He never had a car with an oil filter. He had it close to 25 years and nothing went wrong with the engine. It rusted, being Illinois, and his son my uncle sold it for 50 bucks.

 

[CT8]

The experiment was already done from the First motor vehicles tothe middle 1950s. Then the Auto manufactures found that oil filters doubled engine life with extended oil changes.

 

[CT8]

No need to reprove what has been proven for decates unless youare getting a government grant.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
None of this matters. If the particle count is too low to make the Fram Ultra the King, some will say the particle counter is too old a new counter will find more particles.

If more particles were found then the efficiency number would be worse. Guess they better start using those old inaccurate particle counters.

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
None of this matters. If the particle count is too low to make the Fram Ultra the King, some will say the particle counter is too old a new counter will find more particles.

If more particles were found then the efficiency number would be worse. Guess they better start using those old inaccurate particle counters.

If the particle count is too low (on a non Fram Ultra filter) to make the Fram Ultra the King, some will say the particle counter is too old a new counter will find more particles,(on a non Fram Ultra filter). That is how it is around here. And I have been proven correct once again, Ol' Reliable never changes.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
None of this matters. If the particle count is too low to make the Fram Ultra the King, some will say the particle counter is too old a new counter will find more particles.

If more particles were found then the efficiency number would be worse. Guess they better start using those old inaccurate particle counters.

If the particle count is too low (on a non Fram Ultra filter) to make the Fram Ultra the King, some will say the particle counter is too old a new counter will find more particles,(on a non Fram Ultra filter). That is how it is around here. And I have been proven correct once again, Ol' Reliable never changes.

... "proven correct once again". Only thing proven correct once again is ---> LINK

Yeah, they only use modern high accuracy particle counters on the Ultra.

 

[jongies3]

Why would anyone wanna do this? I guess unless you don't care about your car or have a beater go right ahead! I'll sit back and watch to see what happens while cozily driving around with a Fram Ultra on my truck knowing it's going above and beyond to protect my engine.

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
Why would anyone wanna do this?......

Similar question asked and answered HERE earlier in the thread. Answer was somewhat tongue in cheek I think, and I admit I found it a tad humorous too.

No offense intended here, just trying to keep it light and have some fun.

 

[StevieC]

Is it time to mention how a Tearolator is like having no filter at all, again?

 

[HonorAndHonesty]

Again, I just think it would be interesting. Sure I know old cars ran without oil filters, but oil is better now, as is most air filtration and engine sealing.

I really think that the results might be surprising.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: 5AcresAndAFool
Again, I just think it would be interesting. Sure I know old cars ran without oil filters, but oil is better now, as is most air filtration and engine sealing.

I really think that the results might be surprising.

Well no one is saying you can't do it, but as most people have pointed out there won't be any "results". At least not any that are meaningful.

 

[HonorAndHonesty]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: 5AcresAndAFool
Again, I just think it would be interesting. Sure I know old cars ran without oil filters, but oil is better now, as is most air filtration and engine sealing.

I really think that the results might be surprising.

Well no one is saying you can't do it, but as most people have pointed out there won't be any "results". At least not any that are meaningful.


I was the kind of kid that had to touch the stove to see if it was really hot, and if it was hot, how hot is it really?

I think you would surely see a difference in two UOAs one with a filter and one without.

In all filters I have cut open, all but one vehicle has particles that I can see in them that the filter caught. For whatever reason Our vans is clean as a whistle. There are no particles visible to the naked eye. I actually need to do a UOA on it and see if its as clean as it looks.

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted By: 5AcresAndAFool
... I think you would surely see a difference in two UOAs one with a filter and one without.

In all filters I have cut open, all but one vehicle has particles that I can see in them that the filter caught. For whatever reason Our vans is clean as a whistle. There are no particles visible to the naked eye. ...
It might be hard to come to any meaningful conclusion from such a simple test, as far as differences in wear is concerned. It would be interesting to find out what kind of filterable particles a healthy modern engine generates, and how much.
Most filters I've dissected come out looking almost, but not entirely "clean as a whistle." From the Mazda listed below, typically a few tiny black (carbon?) flecks and occasionally a tiny metallic particle (probably less than one per 10k miles). From the Toyota, a larger number of very tiny black particles, barely visible under a low-power magnifier. Of course, there may have been more stuff too small to see, but never enough to make the dirty side of the media look visibly different from the clean side.

 

[Graham Piccinini]

Get a Fram Ultra XG3600 and change it every 4th OCI, if you are changing oil every 5K.
That's only 20k on an Ultra, and MotorKing said that even 30k miles is easily doable on Fram Ultra, but at that point the risk is the canister beginning to rust if you are in Northern states. If you are in the south tho - every 4th OCI can be a full oil and filter change, while the 3 OCIs in between could be done with an oil pump through a dipstick tube without raising the vehicle.
I know, this is kind of in different direction as opposed to the original post, but this thread made me think of not dealing with getting under the car often to do an oil&filter change and this idea came to mind.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: 5AcresAndAFool
I think you would surely see a difference in two UOAs one with a filter and one without.

In all filters I have cut open, all but one vehicle has particles that I can see in them that the filter caught. For whatever reason Our vans is clean as a whistle. There are no particles visible to the naked eye. I actually need to do a UOA on it and see if its as clean as it looks.

You might think that, and I guess in the end what you think is probably what's most significant, at least to you.

On the bolded statement, what parameter of the UOA indicates engine cleanliness?

 

[DoubleWasp]

This is not even an experiment. Almost every scooter out there has no oil filter, and making them last is a very simple situation: Dump that oil frequently.

By changing the oil every 2000 miles, a scooter engine will last as long as a similar sized MC engine with a filter.

Here's a no-filter engine (just a screen) UOA with 2000 mile OCI, and 30,000 miles on the engine:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4535485/Re:_High_Mileage_Honda_Grom_An

Obviously not a lot of drama going on there. No filter just requires a good oil, and a a short OCI.

What's the deal with people getting up in arms about filter failure? Getting shafted. I'm not dandy, so getting the shaft has no appeal to me. When I buy something, I expect it not to fall apart.

 

[GaryMX5]

I know farmers that run their irrigation motors without oil filters. These motors run 24hrs a day at relatively high RPM often for weeks and months at a time without shut down. They often last for years and years with minimal maintenance. My in-laws change their oil at the beginning of the season and that's about it. They use the cheapest straight weight oils from a major manufacturer they can get (usually chevron, shell, etc. in 55 gal drums) They do however use natural gas and/or propane for fuel and pumped ground water is used for engine cooling.

 

[UncleDave]

Ng and propane burn even cleaner than gas making a no filter setup all the more tolerable.

We always ran a removed mounted dedicated tractor motor that was filtered.



UD

 

[Omahaug]

There are some engines (like the one Mercedes used) where the oil filter cartridge itself is crucial to circulating oil through the engine, without the filter the oil doesn't circulate.

So at least for those engines we know for a fact that would happen if no filter was there, the engine would be catastrophically destroyed quickly.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: 5AcresAndAFool
I am from the school of thought that you can easily run the right filter 15 to 20k miles on a properly maintained car. Easily 2 OCI.
I think filters are overrated to a certain extent.


Very easily.

Fram and Bosch (especially the Distance Plus) publish how many grams of "dirt" each filter will hold. (15-30 grams on a FL-1A or PH-8A sized filter)

Motorking (Jay Buckley from Fram) has stated most engines don't even generate 1 gram per 1,000 miles - - which is easy to believe when you see filters on here that have 20,000 miles of use on a clean engine (I'll call evidence "exhibit A") don't have ANYWHERE NEAR even 5 grams in them!

AS long AS:
1) the engine is clean
2) it's a well made filter

....Then pretty much any oil filter can go 20,000+ miles.