Timing Chain wear tech / T-GDI / and the future
- Thread starter wemay
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Great post, wemay!
Very interesting all around and I did not know about the two types of chains.
I have seen claims elsewhere that DIT engines can experience extra chain wear because the soot that ends up in their oil can be more abrasive than in other types of engines.
Very interesting all around and I did not know about the two types of chains.
I have seen claims elsewhere that DIT engines can experience extra chain wear because the soot that ends up in their oil can be more abrasive than in other types of engines.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Great post, wemay!
Very interesting all around and I did not know about the two types of chains.
I have seen claims elsewhere that DIT engines can experience extra chain wear because the soot that ends up in their oil can be more abrasive than in other types of engines.
Thanks!
This article made me curious as to the type of 'chain in my Hyundai. Glad to see it's the Silent version...
Great post, wemay!
Very interesting all around and I did not know about the two types of chains.
I have seen claims elsewhere that DIT engines can experience extra chain wear because the soot that ends up in their oil can be more abrasive than in other types of engines.
Thanks!
This article made me curious as to the type of 'chain in my Hyundai. Glad to see it's the Silent version...
A little hard to tell from that picture, but that sure looks like a roller chain to me.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: old1
A little hard to tell from that picture, but that sure looks like a roller chain to me.
Sorry, yes that is what i meant but posted incorrectly...
Hyundai uses what BorgWarner describes as a Silent Roller Timing chain.
A little hard to tell from that picture, but that sure looks like a roller chain to me.
Sorry, yes that is what i meant but posted incorrectly...
Hyundai uses what BorgWarner describes as a Silent Roller Timing chain.
Particulates and viscosity remain key factors in chain wear. Choose your oil and viscosity carefully, especially in warm climates, and change regularly. Just an FYI, these same chains, used in industrial applications, require 30 viscosity oil for longest life.
It looks like the degradation in viscosity from fuel dilution and soot from DI is something they are trying to overcome. Of course, you could just change your oil more often. This DI stuff really changed engine oil focus.
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wemay
Site Donor 2023
GM also requires an oil pass it's timing chain wear test in order to obtain dexos1Gen2 licensing.
Originally Posted By: wemay
GM also requires an oil pass it's timing chain wear test in order to obtain dexos1Gen2 licensing.
I don't think it works ...
Have a dealership friend who is still replacing timing chains on GM 3.6ls that are a year or two old.
GM also requires an oil pass it's timing chain wear test in order to obtain dexos1Gen2 licensing.
I don't think it works ...
Have a dealership friend who is still replacing timing chains on GM 3.6ls that are a year or two old.
As best I could tell, wear ("stretch") of the double-row roller chain was neglible in my Mazda after >600k. It drove one camshaft and no idler pulley. Now we have single-row chains driving multiple camshafts and idlers. Add in DI soot ...
That's one more reason to avoid DI.
That's one more reason to avoid DI.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: wemay
GM also requires an oil pass it's timing chain wear test in order to obtain dexos1Gen2 licensing.
I don't think it works ...
Have a dealership friend who is still replacing timing chains on GM 3.6ls that are a year or two old.
That is contrary to what I have heard. Before I purchased my my wife's 3.6 ltr 2017 Impala, I did a lot of research and learned that with the newer LFX engines, the previous issues were all but gone?
Not saying I don't believe you, it's just that I don't want to believe you.
Hopefully your info is wrong and your friend means they are still replacing timing chains on the older models, not the newer ones?
Dual Overhead Cams with Four Valves per Cylinder & Silent Cam Drive: four-valves-per-cylinder with inverted-tooth chain cam drive contributes to the smoothness and high output of the LFX. The engine incorporates a timing chain with an inverted tooth design. These smaller links engage at a lower impact speed, which decreases the noise generated. In conjunction with the smaller pitch chain, the number of teeth on the sprockets are increased, which increases the meshing frequency and further reduces noise and vibration.
Four valves per cylinder and a silent chain valvetrain contribute to both smoothness and high output. Four-cam phasing changes the timing of valve operation as operating conditions such as rpm and engine load vary.
Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-engines/lfx/#ixzz50htkdZge
http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-engines/lfx/
Originally Posted By: wemay
GM also requires an oil pass it's timing chain wear test in order to obtain dexos1Gen2 licensing.
I don't think it works ...
Have a dealership friend who is still replacing timing chains on GM 3.6ls that are a year or two old.
That is contrary to what I have heard. Before I purchased my my wife's 3.6 ltr 2017 Impala, I did a lot of research and learned that with the newer LFX engines, the previous issues were all but gone?
Not saying I don't believe you, it's just that I don't want to believe you.
Dual Overhead Cams with Four Valves per Cylinder & Silent Cam Drive: four-valves-per-cylinder with inverted-tooth chain cam drive contributes to the smoothness and high output of the LFX. The engine incorporates a timing chain with an inverted tooth design. These smaller links engage at a lower impact speed, which decreases the noise generated. In conjunction with the smaller pitch chain, the number of teeth on the sprockets are increased, which increases the meshing frequency and further reduces noise and vibration.
Four valves per cylinder and a silent chain valvetrain contribute to both smoothness and high output. Four-cam phasing changes the timing of valve operation as operating conditions such as rpm and engine load vary.
Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-engines/lfx/#ixzz50htkdZge
http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-engines/lfx/
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: wemay
GM also requires an oil pass it's timing chain wear test in order to obtain dexos1Gen2 licensing.
I don't think it works ...
Have a dealership friend who is still replacing timing chains on GM 3.6ls that are a year or two old.
Yes, but dexos1Gen2 was just put on the shelves a couple months ago. Does anyone know when GM started using it as service fill?
Originally Posted By: wemay
GM also requires an oil pass it's timing chain wear test in order to obtain dexos1Gen2 licensing.
I don't think it works ...
Have a dealership friend who is still replacing timing chains on GM 3.6ls that are a year or two old.
Yes, but dexos1Gen2 was just put on the shelves a couple months ago. Does anyone know when GM started using it as service fill?
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: CR94
As best I could tell, wear ("stretch") of the double-row roller chain was neglible in my Mazda after >600k. It drove one camshaft and no idler pulley. Now we have single-row chains driving multiple camshafts and idlers. Add in DI soot ...
That's one more reason to avoid DI.
The issues addressed in the article are more so directed towards Turbo DI, not DI alone. The GM 3.6L timing chain issues i read about were from a few years back. I haven't seen anything recently. Not that i've looked either, mind you.
As best I could tell, wear ("stretch") of the double-row roller chain was neglible in my Mazda after >600k. It drove one camshaft and no idler pulley. Now we have single-row chains driving multiple camshafts and idlers. Add in DI soot ...
That's one more reason to avoid DI.
The issues addressed in the article are more so directed towards Turbo DI, not DI alone. The GM 3.6L timing chain issues i read about were from a few years back. I haven't seen anything recently. Not that i've looked either, mind you.
Originally Posted By: Malo83
I do 5K oil changes on my 3.6 Malibu, staying ahead of the game.
That will likely be mine as well (5000 miles/8,000 km's) as my wife's car is mainly a city car with stop and go traffic, especially during the winter. (10 kms, maybe, one way)
In the summer, it will likely see an every weekend hwy run to our trailer, which is 123 kms one way. She is already talking about it and can't wait to let her baby stretch it's legs.
I am currently using Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-30 and will likely continue as long as I continue to find it on sale.
I do 5K oil changes on my 3.6 Malibu, staying ahead of the game.
That will likely be mine as well (5000 miles/8,000 km's) as my wife's car is mainly a city car with stop and go traffic, especially during the winter. (10 kms, maybe, one way)
In the summer, it will likely see an every weekend hwy run to our trailer, which is 123 kms one way. She is already talking about it and can't wait to let her baby stretch it's legs.
I am currently using Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-30 and will likely continue as long as I continue to find it on sale.
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wemay
Site Donor 2023
I don't go past 5,000 miles with the Sonata 2.4 and 3,500 with the Santa Fe 2.0Turbo.
I've adopted the rationale of a few studies shared here... More frequent oil changes trump base oil quality, viscosity and or approvals.
I've adopted the rationale of a few studies shared here... More frequent oil changes trump base oil quality, viscosity and or approvals.
dexos1/Gen2 & GF-6 (not even here yet) are late to the timing chain wear test party.
Two tests, the M 271 Wear Test & the OM 646 DE22LA Wear (CEC L-99-08) Test, are in MB 229.5 and have been there for years now.
As for whether dexos1 Gen2 timing chain tests are "working" or not, as somebody above thought, its too early to tell. dexos1/Gen2 just hit the shelves.
I thought the GM 3.6L engine has suffered from occasional supplier problems in surface hardening the timing chains. When they surface harden correctly, those things last. Should only be afflicting 5+ year old 3.6L engines.
Two tests, the M 271 Wear Test & the OM 646 DE22LA Wear (CEC L-99-08) Test, are in MB 229.5 and have been there for years now.
As for whether dexos1 Gen2 timing chain tests are "working" or not, as somebody above thought, its too early to tell. dexos1/Gen2 just hit the shelves.
I thought the GM 3.6L engine has suffered from occasional supplier problems in surface hardening the timing chains. When they surface harden correctly, those things last. Should only be afflicting 5+ year old 3.6L engines.
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Curious if an extended drain but using a high efficiency filter would effect timing chain wear.
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