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Which kind of seal material are HM oils for ? #4596722
12/07/17 02:07 AM
12/07/17 02:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,501
Clovis, CA
Merkava_4 Offline OP
Merkava_4  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,501
Clovis, CA
Obviously paper or cork is not going to respond to seal conditioners or swellers, but what about neoprene or silicone seals; is that the material that HM oils are intended for?

Re: Which kind of seal material are HM oils for ? [Re: Merkava_4] #4596739
12/07/17 03:52 AM
12/07/17 03:52 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,375
ROCHESTER, NY
Char Baby Offline
Char Baby  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,375
ROCHESTER, NY
I think that this is a good question and I have not thought of it myself.

Thanks for asking,

CB


"Retired"
-----------------------------------

'80 Firebird FORMULA V8/4bbl-purchased "NEW"
'15 Nissan Altima 2.5 SV
'15 Honda Civic LX
Re: Which kind of seal material are HM oils for ? [Re: Merkava_4] #4596753
12/07/17 05:33 AM
12/07/17 05:33 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,531
Indiana
dlundblad Offline
dlundblad  Offline
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,531
Indiana
I would say neoprene for sure.

I had a rear main seal leak that M1 HM 10w30 stopped.


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 200k Castrol Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 177k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 149k Rotella T5 10w30 Supertech ST3980

Re: Which kind of seal material are HM oils for ? [Re: Merkava_4] #4596778
12/07/17 06:58 AM
12/07/17 06:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,106
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,106
MA, Mittelfranken.de
This is an material chart for O rings but the materials are also used in seals. Many seals used in engines today are very chemical resistant FFKM or Teflon. HM oil will not have much of an effect on these materials, the more these materials are used the more of a marketing gimmick HM oil becomes.

https://www.marcorubber.com/o-ring-chemical-compatibility-chart-1.htm


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Which kind of seal material are HM oils for ? [Re: Trav] #4596793
12/07/17 07:41 AM
12/07/17 07:41 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 106
MICHIGAN USA
LEADED Offline
LEADED  Offline
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 106
MICHIGAN USA
After 2000 with GM sealing problems with 60° V6 . VITON was preffered material along more durable Sealers impregnated Silicone & such . Nowadays all industry use much better Materials . As far as HM PCMO don't need them in modern blocks . My 2 cents

Re: Which kind of seal material are HM oils for ? [Re: Trav] #4596798
12/07/17 07:54 AM
12/07/17 07:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,812
Dallas,Tx USA
aquariuscsm Offline
aquariuscsm  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,812
Dallas,Tx USA
Originally Posted By: Trav
the more these materials are used the more of a marketing gimmick HM oil becomes.

https://www.marcorubber.com/o-ring-chemical-compatibility-chart-1.htm


I agree. As well as rtv used on valve cover gaskets. HM oils will not help these at all.


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5W20

Re: Which kind of seal material are HM oils for ? [Re: dlundblad] #4596850
12/07/17 09:03 AM
12/07/17 09:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,725
Hudson, NH
LeakySeals Offline
LeakySeals  Offline
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,725
Hudson, NH
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I would say neoprene for sure.

I had a rear main seal leak that M1 HM 10w30 stopped.

M1 HM swelled that seal right up!


06 Escalade 6.0L LQ9 AWD 165k M1 5w30
03 Maxima 3.5L POS 152k ST HM 10w30
Re: Which kind of seal material are HM oils for ? [Re: Trav] #4596926
12/07/17 10:07 AM
12/07/17 10:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,429
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,429
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Trav
Many seals used in engines today are very chemical resistant FFKM or Teflon. HM oil will not have much of an effect on these materials, the more these materials are used the more of a marketing gimmick HM oil becomes.


Very true.

Originally Posted By: LEADED
Nowadays all industry use much better Materials. As far as HM PCMO don't need them in modern blocks . My 2 cents


Yes, older rubber formulations, like neoprene, just don't see much engine use anymore. Maybe in "el Cheapo" small block chevy gasket kits they still do?


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Which kind of seal material are HM oils for ? [Re: Merkava_4] #4597004
12/07/17 11:16 AM
12/07/17 11:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,028
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,028
Idaho
Marketing works


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Which kind of seal material are HM oils for ? [Re: CT8] #4597148
12/07/17 02:24 PM
12/07/17 02:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 325
Rockies
Scdevon Offline
Scdevon  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 325
Rockies
Originally Posted By: CT8
Marketing works


Extra ingredients added to oil in attempt to fix problems = less oil.

Marketing or not, seal conditioners work. I've personally witnessed at least 2 automatic transmissions with obviously worn seals straighten right out with "Trans-X" which is the king of seal conditioner overdose. I'm not sure it's a good idea to add a LITTLE Trans-X to engine oil, but I'm sure someone's thought of it.


2003 Mustang Mach 1. 32V 4.6 Liter. Motorcraft Syn Blend 5W30
1970 Mustang Convertible 302-2V Auto (Stock) M/C 10W30
1970 VW Beetle 1600 DP
Re: Which kind of seal material are HM oils for ? [Re: Merkava_4] #4597314
12/07/17 06:03 PM
12/07/17 06:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,627
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,627
Down Under
High Mileage oils use to be a thick for grade oil, with extra seal conditioners (which are in regular oil anyway - but to a lesser amount) and often with elevated ZDDP levels (API SL) for extra wear protection.

But now with many insisting on only using API SN oils, the ZDDP zinc levels have been reduced to regular ILSAC amount, and the seal conditioners don't work on many modern seal materials. So what you are left with is a slightly thicker oil, with a big font HM on the label.

Strangely enough HM oils have never been popular in Australia, we simply step it up a viscosity grade as the car ages.


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Which kind of seal material are HM oils for ? [Re: Merkava_4] #4597353
12/07/17 06:44 PM
12/07/17 06:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,812
New Zealand
Silk Offline
Silk  Offline
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,812
New Zealand
Rear main seals will be silicone because of the higher heat, front and cam seals viton or what ever. I know a silicone seal will swell in kerosene, so maybe they will work better on a rear main than other seals. I hope so, my rear main leaks.


1987 BMW R65 - Penrite V Twin 20/50
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: Which kind of seal material are HM oils for ? [Re: Silk] #4597843
12/08/17 09:35 AM
12/08/17 09:35 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,106
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,106
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Teflon based is also common for rear main seals now, you know you have one when it comes with an installation sleeve. They are finicky to install but work well and leave no groove in the crank after long use, swellers conditioners have no effect on them.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.

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