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#4584050 - 11/24/17 09:26 PM Remington?
bigj_16 Offline


Registered: 07/03/17
Posts: 1291
Loc: Douglas County, Colorado
I know Remington, et al, has been under the gun smile in the last few years. The trigger lawsuit, product recalls, etc. I read a news article yesterday that their sales are way off and bankruptcy might be looming. I was just at Cabela's today and was perusing their used gun rack. It seems as if the prices on thier used Remingtons are WAY less than comparable brands. Used 742 30-06 for $369. Nice older BDL 7MM for $500. A couple of years ago, both would have been close to double that.

Any one have any thoughts?


Edited by bigj_16 (11/24/17 09:36 PM)

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#4584063 - 11/24/17 09:37 PM Re: Remington? [Re: bigj_16]
JohnnyJohnson Offline


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2884
Loc: Wet side WA
The biggest problem with the Remington trigger is people adjusting them to reduce trigger pull that don't know what their doing. I would stick with the Model 700. The biggest problem with handling guns the best safety is planted firmly between your ears not on the side of the receiver. 99.999999% of all gun accidents can be prevented by good gun safety.
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#4584065 - 11/24/17 09:38 PM Re: Remington? [Re: bigj_16]
bigj_16 Offline


Registered: 07/03/17
Posts: 1291
Loc: Douglas County, Colorado
Johnny,
What I was really getting at was the fate of Remington smile


Edited by bigj_16 (11/24/17 09:38 PM)

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#4584068 - 11/24/17 09:39 PM Re: Remington? [Re: bigj_16]
Reddy45 Offline


Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 3025
Loc: USA
They are merely a shell of what they once were. They were bought up by a hedge fund (now called The Freedom Group) that basically stripped all the value they could from the brand name. The vintage Remington stuff like 870s still fetch a good price because those have better build quality.

I own a short action Rem 700 but only because this particular bolt action has the best aftermarket option of all comparable guns. I'd sell it if someone offered me fair money and I'd replace it with a Savage Model 10.

I wouldn't blink an eye if they went away entirely. It's one thing for them to have been given a lot of unwarranted bad press because of the trigger safety issues, but they didn't want to innovate and keep up with the industry. Ruger and S&W both learned right and followed gun trends and both are doing great now.

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#4584086 - 11/24/17 10:20 PM Re: Remington? [Re: bigj_16]
ron17571 Offline


Registered: 11/25/14
Posts: 166
Loc: AZ
just look at youtube videos of what Remingtons thinking about the employees and the building of lever action rifles.Very sad.Remington is a brand i stay away from.
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#4584118 - 11/24/17 11:35 PM Re: Remington? [Re: ron17571]
bigj_16 Offline


Registered: 07/03/17
Posts: 1291
Loc: Douglas County, Colorado
Originally Posted By: ron17571
just look at youtube videos of what Remingtons thinking about the employees and the building of lever action rifles.Very sad.Remington is a brand i stay away from.

Do you have a link?

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#4584120 - 11/24/17 11:39 PM Re: Remington? [Re: bigj_16]
PimTac Online   content


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 4603
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
Remington’s Moody rating is like CCC or about. The company is at the edge of the abyss. Sales have dropped off a cliff. It’s practically worthless and if anyone is holding their stock, it will be worth less than toilet paper very soon.

It is a sad story like many before. A great company that withered.
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#4584121 - 11/24/17 11:43 PM Re: Remington? [Re: bigj_16]
bigj_16 Offline


Registered: 07/03/17
Posts: 1291
Loc: Douglas County, Colorado
Common story in the USA these days. Take a great company and run it into the ground. I am sure the upper management will collect a hefty parachute and move on to the next company.

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#4584149 - 11/25/17 03:07 AM Re: Remington? [Re: bigj_16]
ATex7239 Offline


Registered: 01/19/17
Posts: 331
Loc: Texas,USA
Remington is slowing dying. I have stayed away from their products for several years.
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#4584154 - 11/25/17 03:35 AM Re: Remington? [Re: bigj_16]
Mr Nice Offline


Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 21345
Loc: Orlando, FL
Its best they go out of business due to their poor quality.

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#4584170 - 11/25/17 05:33 AM Re: Remington? [Re: Mr Nice]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4547
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Its best they go out of business due to their poor quality.


First off, have you personally seen or experienced any of this, "poor quality"? And please explain how, "It's best if they go out of business"? So far this has turned into nothing but another Remington bashing thread. With not a single example or link put forward to back up anything. Just a bunch of hearsay. Yes, I've read all of the regurgitated Internet blather circulating around various gun forums on how horrible everything they make is. And this appears to be nothing but yet another extension of still more of that blather.

I've seen several Remington rifles and shotguns made in the last several years. And none of them experienced problems, or poor accuracy or workmanship. In that same time I've seen countless Ruger and Mossberg bolt rifles that didn't feed properly, and produced groups at 100 yards that looked more like buckshot patterns. And that had gaps in their wood to metal fit that looks like an 8 year old inletted the stock, 20 minutes after receiving a shot of Demerol. Yes, after the takeover some of the first Remington and Marlin products off the new assembly lines experienced some quality issues. Most all of them have been resolved long ago. But the unsubstantiated B.S. lives on.

Everyone gripes about the Cerberus Capitol Management takeover. The fact is without it, along with the financial capitol it provided, Remington, and quite possibly Marlin would have gone out of business long ago. And anytime an American firearms corporation goes bankrupt, it is never a good thing. Especially when they've been around for well over a century. That's nothing to salivate or celebrate over. And it's certainly not, "what's best".

Remington and Marlin became victims of too high of production costs. (The East Coast, and in particular the New England area has some of the highest labor costs and taxes in the nation). Along with 100+ year old plants that are falling apart, and machinery that required modernization decades ago. They needed this equipment and working capitol back in the 70's when DuPont owned them. Where were they? And yet I don't hear anyone badmouthing them. Now Cerberus, (who has managed to keep them out of bankruptcy court), is all of a sudden the greedy financial villain. Then came the whole Walker and X-Mark Pro trigger fiasco. That wound up costing them what could possibly be hundreds of millions before it's all over. No company wants to be victimized in this manner. But sadly today with the liberal, anti gun legal system that exists in this country, companies like Remington are ripe for the picking. And very financially vulnerable because of it.

I don't know if they'll survive this or not. I sure hope they do. I recently examined a new Remington Model 700 BDL in .300 Win. Mag. It was every bit as beautiful, and the action and trigger every bit as slick and smooth as my 1972 Model 700 BDL in the same caliber. And the only thing that was molded on the entire gun was the recoil pad. Just last month there were 2 members at my local gun club with new 700's. Both were very happy with the results and groups they were getting. Both guns showed beautiful workmanship.

So you'll have to forgive me if I don't jump on this whole anti Remington bandwagon. Because I have personally yet to see or witness anything that supports it. And I am retired, and spend a lot of time at gun shops and shooting ranges every week. And no, I don't think it would be, "best if they went out of business". I think it would be a very sad day indeed, to have to be forced to say good bye to the oldest American firearms manufacturer in this country. That's certainly nothing to cheer about. Everything else is nothing but a bunch of Internet slop.


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#4584185 - 11/25/17 06:24 AM Re: Remington? [Re: bigj_16]
LoneRanger Offline


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 4096
Loc: Midwest USA
Yeah, be gone with Remington I say. Never paid me a $100 rebate on 10 boxes of fully eligible Golden Saber ammunition in 2015.
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#4584190 - 11/25/17 06:40 AM Re: Remington? [Re: bigj_16]
AZjeff Offline


Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 2729
Loc: PV Az
Well said Bill. Ruger is certainly alive and well and has no lack of problems reported on the internet. You mentioned the high labor costs in the east, true enough, but low labor costs have it's own problems as well. At the Prescott Ruger plant production jobs start at $10/hour, same as a new hire at McDonalds. It's demanding work and the turnover is high.

How have the Remington handguns besides the 1911 been doing? That first R51 could only be called disaster and they recalled all of them. See there are 3 models besides the 1911 now, are you around any of them? I was interested in the R51 but lost track of what happened.
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#4584198 - 11/25/17 06:50 AM Re: Remington? [Re: billt460]
Slick17601 Offline


Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 1518
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Its best they go out of business due to their poor quality.


First off, have you personally seen or experienced any of this, "poor quality"? And please explain how, "It's best if they go out of business"? So far this has turned into nothing but another Remington bashing thread. With not a single example or link put forward to back up anything. Just a bunch of hearsay. Yes, I've read all of the regurgitated Internet blather circulating around various gun forums on how horrible everything they make is. And this appears to be nothing but yet another extension of still more of that blather.

I've seen several Remington rifles and shotguns made in the last several years. And none of them experienced problems, or poor accuracy or workmanship. In that same time I've seen countless Ruger and Mossberg bolt rifles that didn't feed properly, and produced groups at 100 yards that looked more like buckshot patterns. And that had gaps in their wood to metal fit that looks like an 8 year old inletted the stock, 20 minutes after receiving a shot of Demerol. Yes, after the takeover some of the first Remington and Marlin products off the new assembly lines experienced some quality issues. Most all of them have been resolved long ago. But the unsubstantiated B.S. lives on.

Everyone gripes about the Cerberus Capitol Management takeover. The fact is without it, along with the financial capitol it provided, Remington, and quite possibly Marlin would have gone out of business long ago. And anytime an American firearms corporation goes bankrupt, it is never a good thing. Especially when they've been around for well over a century. That's nothing to salivate or celebrate over. And it's certainly not, "what's best".

Remington and Marlin became victims of too high of production costs. (The East Coast, and in particular the New England area has some of the highest labor costs and taxes in the nation). Along with 100+ year old plants that are falling apart, and machinery that required modernization decades ago. They needed this equipment and working capitol back in the 70's when DuPont owned them. Where were they? And yet I don't hear anyone badmouthing them. Now Cerberus, (who has managed to keep them out of bankruptcy court), is all of a sudden the greedy financial villain. Then came the whole Walker and X-Mark Pro trigger fiasco. That wound up costing them what could possibly be hundreds of millions before it's all over. No company wants to be victimized in this manner. But sadly today with the liberal, anti gun legal system that exists in this country, companies like Remington are ripe for the picking. And very financially vulnerable because of it.

I don't know if they'll survive this or not. I sure hope they do. I recently examined a new Remington Model 700 BDL in .300 Win. Mag. It was every bit as beautiful, and the action and trigger every bit as slick and smooth as my 1972 Model 700 BDL in the same caliber. And the only thing that was molded on the entire gun was the recoil pad. Just last month there were 2 members at my local gun club with new 700's. Both were very happy with the results and groups they were getting. Both guns showed beautiful workmanship.

So you'll have to forgive me if I don't jump on this whole anti Remington bandwagon. Because I have personally yet to see or witness anything that supports it. And I am retired, and spend a lot of time at gun shops and shooting ranges every week. And no, I don't think it would be, "best if they went out of business". I think it would be a very sad day indeed, to have to be forced to say good bye to the oldest American firearms manufacturer in this country. That's certainly nothing to cheer about. Everything else is nothing but a bunch of Internet slop.



I sure have- a Marlin 1894 that I do not know how it made it out of the factory. No polish at all on the receiver prior to bluing and huge gaps in the wood to metal fit.

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#4584214 - 11/25/17 07:06 AM Re: Remington? [Re: AZjeff]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4547
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Well said Bill. Ruger is certainly alive and well and has no lack of problems reported on the internet. You mentioned the high labor costs in the east, true enough, but low labor costs have it's own problems as well. At the Prescott Ruger plant production jobs start at $10/hour, same as a new hire at McDonalds. It's demanding work and the turnover is high.

How have the Remington handguns besides the 1911 been doing? That first R51 could only be called disaster and they recalled all of them. See there are 3 models besides the 1911 now, are you around any of them? I was interested in the R51 but lost track of what happened.


The R-51 was, is, and continues to be a disaster. They need to stick with what they know best. Namely rifles and shotguns. The Model 700, along with the various Model 870's have been the mainstay of that company since the 60's. I have a Stainless Remington R-1911, and it's a beautiful pistol. I would not hesitate to purchase another Remington 1911 pistol. The new 10 MM version looks very tempting.

Fortunately for Ruger, they had the financial capitol to get out of "Gun Valley". When Bill Ruger built the Prescott, Arizona plant, he purposefully made it way oversize for what they needed at the time. In fact for several years a large portion of it was used to house his massive car collection. Now the company has grown into it nicely. Remington and Marlin were not afforded that luxury. The Ilion, New York Remington plant should have been closed years ago. It's a dark, dreary factory that has long outlived it's time. And a new modern plant in an area of the country more wage and tax friendly would cost millions of dollars they simply no longer have.

Cerberus has "multi tasked" assembly at many of the companies they purchased with the whole Freedom Group buyout. The first problematic Marlins were coming off DPMS, (Panther Arms), assembly lines. This caused many problems relating to quality that were quickly resolved. Most everything has been ironed out as best it can be with the equipment they are being forced to make do with. Even Bushmaster quality suffered when they moved them out of the Windham Maine plant, (which has since been sold back to Richard Dyke who started up Windham Weaponry in the same plant he started the original Bushmaster in).

But today the only actual problem Freedom Group companies are having, is the badmouthing they're getting from people who talk about their guns. And don't own or shoot them. And one could argue with 20/20 hindsight on the whole Walker Trigger issue. It really doesn't matter any longer because it is going to be an expensive mess to clean up regardless of how they do it. I just hope they make it out of this O.K.

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