New Chinesium SUV hits Oz....

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Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Probably what stops the Chinese car companies from making a run at the N.A. market is that the existing manufacturers could build something simpler and cheaper as well(like they do in other markets), and would if the Chinese company started making money filling that niche.


I think it's politics. Australia has a free trade deal with China. Chinese vehicles would be subject to heavy tariffs if imported to the US. Trucks would also be subject to the chicken tax. They would also have to be redesigned to meet all the US regulations.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
The current Buick Envision is 100% made in China and imported 12,000 miles by ships, trains, and trucks to the U.S. at great expense. Imagine the beating these things take on trucks and trains especially to travel that distance. .... Fortunately for GM's profit margin, the shipping expense is offset by paying Chinese workers about $1.50 (U.S.) per hour of work. The factories run by GM, they do manage decent quality over there.

Interesting to see how well they have copied and studied existing vehicles out there to do this UTE/SUV. Its difficult to keep process trade secrets for vehicle engineering at all the established car companies, so China has no trouble observing, hacking into computer networks, and hiring 'consultants', former engineers from other car companies, to steal the technology directly.


And yet the Envision I rented with (if I recall correctly, a $44K sticker price) was clearly a sub-standard vehicle. Already showing signs of spot rust on the poorly fabricated sheetmetal under the hood. The Kia Sorento I rented afterwards was half the price and every bit as luxurious. Plus the Kia has far better driving dynamics and a much more responsive engine, with better MPG.
 
The trucks and trains have happened for many years once cars came off ships at ports like LA and Houston …
And they don’t fly from Detroit etc …
Bet one trip to my camp is a worse beating …
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
The current Buick Envision is 100% made in China and imported 12,000 miles by ships, trains, and trucks to the U.S. at great expense. Imagine the beating these things take on trucks and trains especially to travel that distance. .... Fortunately for GM's profit margin, the shipping expense is offset by paying Chinese workers about $1.50 (U.S.) per hour of work. The factories run by GM, they do manage decent quality over there.

Interesting to see how well they have copied and studied existing vehicles out there to do this UTE/SUV. Its difficult to keep process trade secrets for vehicle engineering at all the established car companies, so China has no trouble observing, hacking into computer networks, and hiring 'consultants', former engineers from other car companies, to steal the technology directly.


And yet the Envision I rented with (if I recall correctly, a $44K sticker price) was clearly a sub-standard vehicle. Already showing signs of spot rust on the poorly fabricated sheetmetal under the hood. The Kia Sorento I rented afterwards was half the price and every bit as luxurious. Plus the Kia has far better driving dynamics and a much more responsive engine, with better MPG.



I would not judge any vehicle as a rental. Just Sayin. We have seen plenty of reviews (by armchair reviewers) of rental cars on here with entirely different opinions from those that actually owned the rented vehicle.
 
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Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Australia / New Zeland are just too close to Asia for domestic manufacturing to survive without export sales, which just never happened. Even the Pontiac GTO (rebadged Holden) didn't sell in the US (not available in Canada, Mexico), and it was a relatively inexpensive high performance vehicle.

Throw in the Financial Crisis and it just adds up to non-viable. Note that no matter what period in history, and no matter which nation, a financial crisis leads to automotive factory shut-downs and automotive factory clustering around the core manufacturing area, since those can survive. Every time.

Just to throw the topic further off the rails, I think I have to add my
49.gif
worth about Aussie manufacturing.

Ford Australia made a pretty big mistake not exporting the Falcon to the U.S.A.
Falcons, at least until the end of production a little while back, were our mainstay Police & taxi vehicle of choice. They easily accepted LPG conversion, and seemed to have a better drivetrain than the Holden Commodore (*cough* Chevrolet in disguise *cough*). The Falcon would've been the perfect replacement for the Grand Marquis/Crown Vic etc.

Part of the reason our manufacturing has gone in the toilet was the mining boom of the 2000s. Our currency is a "commodity currency," and closely follows the prices for our key exports (iron ore in particular). A few years back, some will recall the Australian currency being worth close to US$1.10. Great for our purchasing power, but not the other way around... Couple that with our already-expensive goods, and you have the recipe for disaster.

Still, I think the Falcon was the car Americans would have wanted, and it came with a variety of power-plant options (from the N/A 6, to Turbo 6, V8s etc).
 
Originally Posted By: B320i

Ford Australia made a pretty big mistake not exporting the Falcon to the U.S.A.
Falcons, at least until the end of production a little while back, were our mainstay Police & taxi vehicle of choice. They easily accepted LPG conversion, and seemed to have a better drivetrain than the Holden Commodore (*cough* Chevrolet in disguise *cough*). The Falcon would've been the perfect replacement for the Grand Marquis/Crown Vic etc.



Agreed, they would have done better than the current Taurus.
 
The Falcon was dropped by the NZ Police sometime around the turn of the century - They couldn't stop and were taken off pusuit duties. We were having problems too, pads, rotors and calipers at 70,000km, customers weren't happy...taxi drivers were fitting very soft pads and changing at 10,000km to get some rotor life. On the other side of the coin, taxi drivers wouldn't use the Commodore, it was too uncomfortable to spend all day in. Falcons only in Taxi fleets.

Aussie is where we were in the late '80's and early '90's - the dollar floated and tarrifs lifted. It killed our local assembly industry...and all that went with it, batteries, radiators, paint,tyres, upholstorey etc.
 
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
Universal healthcare in China, no need for health insurance unless you want private coverage.


They don't have universal healthcare. They have a "medicare / social security" like system that they copied from the US.

And you put a deposit down before you see a doctor and get a refund after the visit, so they know you won't run away.
 
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
$1.5 an hour sounds like a number you made up on the spot. China also doesn't have the cheapest labour. If it was only about the cheapest labour GM would be making cars in Myanmar and Bangladesh.

I think your view that Chinese cars are hand-made in a sweat shop is absurd.


I think even making baby clothes you need to pay more than that in Vietnam these days. If you want a sure fire $1.5 / hr you probably have to go to Pakistan or Cambodia. Making cars in a factories? You are looking at $5+ overtime these days.

Usualy the rule of thumb is Asian labor is about 1/3 of US before tax, 1/2 after tax, apple to apple comparison. The biggest cost in China is TAX (SURPRISE!!!!), they charge the tax on the production end so even if you can't sell what you make you still have to pay up. Their lands are expensive if it is near a port with manufacturing hub, and energy is super expensive compare to the US (needs to import natural gas).

That auto glass factory guy said despite US having more expensive labor the end result is the production cost is slightly cheaper.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Re the safety rating, it's a proper, genuine one, and just recently was the first Chinese ute to get 5 stars

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/honda-cr-v-ldv-t60-haval-h2-awarded-five-ancap-stars-59916




A Chinese built vehicle coming to America to a dealer near you...... At some point. Now-if they under cut the competition on price buy a substantial amount they will sell.

Like I said they would. Especially when the car buying public is reminded that there are already Chinese built or designed cars on our roads.

THIS IS GOING TO BE GREAT!
 
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Originally Posted By: PimTac
Do they sell the JMC trucks in Aus? Saw lots of those when out of country.


Sure do, although I haven't seen too many on the road yet.
 
you're going to see fireworks soon. if NAFTA is repealed (dejure, defacto, edict, congressional vote)
there will be a frenzy on NAFTA trucks. then buy call options on all the US car mfg. at the
beginning of the post-NAFTA truck production, buy put options.

the frenzy makes top and bottom lines for Ford, GM, FC) go through the roof as buyers
empty the lots. then when the post-NAFTA trucks arrive, the sticker shock will drop
sales (remember the tariffs being added back post-NAFTA?). that 45K F150 may well
be 80K. then the factory halts production (lots filled), and massive layoffs.

then the Chinese come (search how many Chinese companies make cars & trucks)
into the US. Even with added tariffs (remember NO transpacific agreement)
they will be cheaper than NAFTA trucks let alone post-NAFTA trucks.

and which would the average American buy?
 
Want keep them out of the US? Slap a huge tariff on them. I mean we can put a 300% tariff on Canadian jets, why not something similar on these?
 
Well you know, something to do with that American jobs thing right? "We", the US Government, won't let the market decide on a Canadian jet, which has no competing American counterpart, why not a Chinese car that will compete with American vehicles? Besides, don't we buy enough of their stuff already?
 
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I was in South America and Chinese cars were all over the place. Chery, BYD, Great Wall...they were even being used as taxis.
 
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