Red Line 15W50, 6k mi OCI, 75k mi, Cadillac CTS-V

[andyd]

, or squeak to a stop. OOH I hated that. It happened a few times in my bug days. Thick oil is better than thin in hot situations. It can handle heat and dilution better.I know, thin oil dissipates heat better. It also disappears faster. Here is my anecdotal
evidence. I had a Datsun pick up with a 1.6. The radiator went bad, but was manage-able. Except if you weren't aware of the condition and drove til the engine seized and detonated through a piston. Seized and bent the rod. I bought a hulk and used the, head, piston and rod. The journal and the shells had survived the carnage overhead without damage. I put the engine back together and got another 50k out of it. The oil was what S was current in the late 70's Castrol 20w50. Been a thick oil guy since. Putting 0w20 in the Camry goes against my better judgment

,

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: userfriendly
The iron in the UOA is likely coming from down the bore and would be of no consequence.

Besides, is there any GM engine that doesn't shed a bunch of iron?

 

[4WD]

Does the engine have piston oil jets?

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: Garak
The only 5w-30 I'd try in a situation like that would be one with A3/B4 type HTHS.

How do I find an A3/B4 oil Garak ?

 

[Garak]

Castrol 0w-30 A3/B4, 0w-40 A3/B4, and 5w-30 A3/b4, M1 0w-40, Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w-40 and 0w-40, that's a fairly decent bunch off the top of my head. Walmart will have at least a couple of them.

 

[Merkava_4]

M1 0W-30 isn't A3/B4 ? Interesting.

 

[4WD]

Target of Dexos1 and others in the thin lane …

 

[Merkava_4]

I checked my local Walmart. They don't have Castrol 0W-30 or 5W-30 A3/B4. Only that ILSAC GF-5 junk.

 

[userfriendly]

.... and not a single CTS-V on the Wal*Mart parking lot either I bet.

Edit; Walmart has 20W50 Mobil motorcycle and 15W50 M1 is at Canadian Tire.

 

[Popsy]

Why not some Rotella T6 ?
People often « jump » from 5W30 to 15W50, why?

 

[Emperors6]

Yes, the engine has piston oil jets. I just like the hight HTHS of Red Line oils so 15W50 seemed natural. Plus, my mechanic maintains a bunch of Corvettes and Camaros for a track school and, anecdotally, some of them were having failures at the track, and they moved from 5W30 to 15W50 and the failures went away. The 5W30 and 15W50 seem best for heavy load operation as they don't looks like they have too many additives when compared to the 0W30 and the 0W40.

 

[userfriendly]

What is the HTHS of Red Line 15W50?

 

[Emperors6]

5.8 for the RL 15W50, 3.7 for the RL 5W30

 

[userfriendly]

Duron or Delo SAE40 would fit right in the middle between those two at 4.2, as would most 15W40s.
I use 15W40 or SAE 40 in just about everything, weather permitting.
If I'm that worried about fuel economy, I'll walk 3 blocks to the store for beer 'n cigarettes before I'd put xW20 in a vehicle I want to last.

 

[Charlie2015]

Thanks for sharing the results, Emperors6.

 

[4WD]

Ok, I asked about the jets sorta follow up to BrocL’s comments …
there are many things said here regarding flow at the macro level … PDP and “getting to the top” etc … but a thick oil is going to effect both the volume and pattern (coverage) from a nozzle …

I also think a top shelf 40 is a good next step if the metals are indeed from an aluminum piston in a cast iron sleeve …

 

[Emperors6]

I don't want to overreact into the latest results and will monitor future UOAs. I am not sure if the problem is transient or not. Track use is over for winter so I'll be able to get an UOA in the spring on a less loaded engine. I take many long highway drives so there will be barely any winter short trips.

As for using Diesel engine oils I'm not sure it's any better.

re: 4WD's jet concern -- the question then is what was the oil temperature when most of the aluminum wear happened

 

[userfriendly]

Some claim that cooking with aluminum pots 'n pans is a bad idea, because aluminum ends up in the food.
Those same people will claim that cooking with cast iron is good, especially for women.

Piston wear is not usually an issue. Ring wear and liner wear where the rings turn around at TDC, valve train and bearings are your main concern.
All is meaningless if the engine fails in service.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: Emperors6
I didn't want to use 5W30 this summer since 265F oil temperature at the track makes the 50W oil have the viscosity of a 30W and the 30W to have the viscosity of a 20W. I want to maintain the right viscosity at my operating temperature.


265F is not hot for an oil temperature, even if it were a conventional oil. I have run Red Line 5w30 in my Corvette track car for many years, up to oil temps of 315F at Daytona at a 3-day event, and the engine is still fine. Red Line can take the heat. As 30-weights go, Red Line 5w30 is at the top of the range of viscosity, and the HTHS of 3.7 puts it in the same range as many 40-weights. I know that GM has taken to recommending 15w50 for their performance cars used in track events, but I think they were thinking more of M1 15w50, which has an HTHS of 4.5, instead of Red Line 15w50, which has an HTHS of 5.8. Big difference there. Red Line 10w40 has an HTHS of 4.4, which is comparable to M1 15w50.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
M1 0W-30 isn't A3/B4 ? Interesting.

No, that one is a dexos1 SN/GF-5 type 0w-30. Castrol used to have an ILSAC 0w-30, too, but I haven't seen that for years. Your Walmarts may not have 0w-30 Castrol A3/B4. Even with our Walmarts, some do, some don't. The 5w-30 A3/B4 is a bit harder to find.

Popsy: I think the jump to 15w-50 is simply because that's what Chevrolet recommends for certain vehicles for tracking. Other options certain can make sense, but that's what they do.