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Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: SeaJay] #4576910
11/17/17 09:43 AM
11/17/17 09:43 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,479
Alberta, Canada
Smokescreen Offline
Smokescreen  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,479
Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: SeaJay
I made my peace many years ago by deciding to stay at a level with less responsibility and much less stress with pay levels acceptable for that work. Couldn't be happier.


+1. ... added my comment.


13 Civic Si 2.4L- 69Kkms(43Kmi)-PP,Wix
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Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bowlofturtle] #4576912
11/17/17 09:44 AM
11/17/17 09:44 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,230
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,230
Where the wind comes sweepin'
If you like your current job because of the manager, but your manager soon won't be your manager, then it would be wiser for you to become that position than to have to suffer under an outside hire who may not jive with you.

Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bowlofturtle] #4576927
11/17/17 09:55 AM
11/17/17 09:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,198
Indiana
Indydriver Offline
Indydriver  Offline
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,198
Indiana
My last three “promotions” were laterals within the second from the top management “band”. Base pay increase was modest, bonus opportunity expanded slightly but as noted by several here, the responsibility expanded greatly. Sometimes you just have no choice. Remember one thing....HR is not your friend in any of this. They are the CEO’s #1 overhead reduction agent.

You can always try for alternative comp....increased bonus, stock options, increased PTO, or one of my company’s Favorites: a one-time signing bonus.


2014 Camaro 2SS/RS LS3 Vert 14,000 M1
2012 Sienna 79,000 M1
2007 Tahoe 140,000 PP

Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bowlofturtle] #4576971
11/17/17 10:27 AM
11/17/17 10:27 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 429
New England
555 Offline
555  Offline
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 429
New England
"Poorly paid promotion" think about those three words together and you will have your answer.
Good luck with your decision.


84 XJ6 M1
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Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bugeye] #4576991
11/17/17 10:47 AM
11/17/17 10:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,906
Connecticut
69GTX Offline
69GTX  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,906
Connecticut
Originally Posted By: bugeye
Listen to Char Baby. I've been there. You get squeezed from above and below. It's called responsibility without authority. Those above you make decisions which you may not agree, but you are held accountable. No thanks. The effect on my health and family life was never worth the aggravation. I welcomed the "down sizing" of my management position and moved into early retirement.


I made such a leap too....twice. From Plant Maintenance Superintendent (50 hr weeks), to Chief Engineer (60-70), to Plant Manager (60-90). I really didn't want any of those promotions. I refused the 1st one to Chief because I knew I'd work myself to death and stress out to the max. Well, when it came up a 2nd time a year later, I was sort of "pushed" into it as no one else was available. I "killed" myself for 3 years and started a health decline that didn't end until 6 years later....putting in 60-70 hr weeks while being paid for 40.

When the plant manager job came open in 3 years, I initially refused it. I knew I wasn't mentally cut out to be that type of manager. Well, the regional VP pushed me hard to take it....I was their guy. I told them it wasn't me. He wanted me bad. So, I took the job and the next 6-9 months I filled all 3 positions (chief, maint, plant mgr)....saving the company over $100K in salaries alone. I didn't take a day off for 9 months. I was doing 80-90 hour weeks. Finally, I got the approval to fill the other 2 positions. But within 2 years, I was dragged down by the performance of my underlings and the plant itself aging and needing more money than it was truly worth. My initial concerns of not being the right type of "guy" did come to fruition. Now the regional VP wanted me out...lol. In the end, I'd have been much better off staying in one of those 2 lower positions...and I'd have earned plenty of money into retirement. As it was I burnt out early, left the business 10 yrs before I should have (after 20 yrs). My health for those 6 years really took a downturn as I rarely had time to exercise, spent most of the weekends catching up on sleep, never getting out in the sun, and adding 50 lbs of added weight. My diet went to heck. I finally got it all under control in 2009 and got my health back after leaving the business. I was a good fit for those first 2 jobs...but not a good one for the higher one, despite the big jump in pay. If I had to do it again, I'd have never taken it...though I have a feeling that might have also led to an early demise.

Sometimes "advancing up" is not the right move for everyone. I constantly told my senior mechanics and instrument techs (pulling down $90K-$110K with Overtime) that they had it made with skills that would fly anywhere at any time. They should be quite happy with the deal they had. Ironically, 9 years after I left the facility, they closed down the power plant side due to it being too costly to keep up with environment regs, and nearly all of the workers and managers had to be reassigned. The ones that had the best parachutes were the middle and senior grade techs.


----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 39K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
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1969 Ply GTX/RRs
Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bowlofturtle] #4577077
11/17/17 12:38 PM
11/17/17 12:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 810
Cincinnati, OH USA
CincyDavid Offline
CincyDavid  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 810
Cincinnati, OH USA
I'm perfectly content to just be in sales...make my own schedule, responsible only for my performance...if I need to make more money I just prospect more , sell more, and I made my own raise.

I watch my managers getting hammered from above and below, making less than the top-selling sales people, with 4x the stress and headaches.

I tried management with a previous employer and vowed to NEVER make the same mistake again. My monthly gross income varies widely, with a range in excess of $10,000 between my best and worst month in any given year, but as long as I can make my budget work with that variable, I'm not going to make any moves into management. In my experience, only 20% of new sales people make it for a year in the department, and the record with managers isn't much better...the company is just slower to remove a bad manager than a non-productive sales person so everyone in the department suffers for months.


06 Kia Sportage EX greenish gold(ugliest color ever)
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Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bowlofturtle] #4577254
11/17/17 04:28 PM
11/17/17 04:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,198
Indiana
Indydriver Offline
Indydriver  Offline
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,198
Indiana
Universal truths:

American business management is generally poor with shortsighted objectives.

Corporate will abuse you as much as YOU let it.


2014 Camaro 2SS/RS LS3 Vert 14,000 M1
2012 Sienna 79,000 M1
2007 Tahoe 140,000 PP

Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: Indydriver] #4577287
11/17/17 05:13 PM
11/17/17 05:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,441
DFW
DBMaster Offline
DBMaster  Offline
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,441
DFW
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Universal truths:

American business management is generally poor with shortsighted objectives.

Corporate will abuse you as much as YOU let it.


Pretty much. Unfortunately, in my experience, when you push back against said abuse you end up MORE abused or out the door.

Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bowlofturtle] #4577312
11/17/17 05:32 PM
11/17/17 05:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
bigj_16 Offline
bigj_16  Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
I could add a lot to this but I am going to provide two quotes:

"Stress will kill you."

"When on their deathbed, no one has ever said, 'I wish I would have spent more time at the office'."

Last edited by bigj_16; 11/17/17 05:37 PM.
Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: Char Baby] #4577327
11/17/17 05:53 PM
11/17/17 05:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 780
Chicago
bowlofturtle Offline OP
bowlofturtle  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 780
Chicago
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Best of luck to you

~7 years prior to my retirement, I took a poorly paid promotion. The annual pay increases were better over those years than what I had been receiving in the past however, they money, responsibility & stress ratio was never worth the difference.

Many of my co-workers wanted me to take this promotion for similar reasons that you want to take the promotion...so that someone less qualified didn't get the job.

The stress increase put my health at risk and those same co-workers turned against me, originally thinking that, "he's(me) one of us in this position"! But, instead over that period of time, I became one of them(upper mgt) and I had to perform the job in the name of the company & my superiors, and not the employees.

Although by the time I had retired, I was making more money than I had ever made, once it was over, I feel that it was never worth it. I would rather have stayed where I was and not taken the promotion. The extra money and short period of time that I was in this position didn't help much(too small to calculate) in my retirement anyway unless I could have had this position for 30 years.

Maybe I wasn't cut out for the position as it does take a special person that can handle criticism and stress when performing a job in the name of the company and not your friends.


Yea, i could see that happening to me, i really hope that it doesn't but one can never really know. The small amount money here isn't going to cover my stress levels but i might use the title to get me something better a few years down the road. I'm early 30's so i still have a lot of paths and offers to consider. If i was in my 50's i'm pretty sure i would have easily stayed in the middle and just wait it out.



Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
What does "poorly paid" mean ?
$5K raise, $10K raise, ....???

Sometimes the added stress and aggravation is not worth the small salary increase.



Its about 5% bump each step.

Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
You can go into upper management and if it doesn't work, can always change the employer now with a better looking resume.

If the pay raise is the issue, remember that when promoted from within, the salary is not as high as when someone is brought from the outside. The reason for that is that they weren't able to find someone from the inside so they are upping the offer to attract someone from the outside. Plus, the outsiders start with a clean slate and are able to negotiate better.


This is one of thought processes. I hate to be the guy the bouncing around jobs every few years but i'm not at the level where i want to be yet.

Originally Posted By: bcossa2001
What an outstanding thread. Real life advice from experienced people.


100% agreed, a lot more then i honestly expected. Everyone here rocks!


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Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: DBMaster] #4577348
11/17/17 06:31 PM
11/17/17 06:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,409
ME
eljefino Offline
eljefino  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,409
ME
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Universal truths:

American business management is generally poor with shortsighted objectives.

Corporate will abuse you as much as YOU let it.


Pretty much. Unfortunately, in my experience, when you push back against said abuse you end up MORE abused or out the door.


Detach yourself if you go for it. He who has nothing to lose has the most to gain. Troll those above you if they give you contradictory or impossible orders. Give them a list of what you need to make X happen, via email, with a personal copy of said email. When they bust you for missing a target, flip it right around and say under your plan of which they already have a copy this wouldn't have happened and they should invest more in Y.

I had a "fun" last couple years at my former employer doing exactly this. Lampooning the stupid to their faces. Demanding tools I didn't get. (Sadly I still was able to provide the product anyway...) Saving emails off-site. It helped that I was underpaid and knew I could have done better. I do better now. smile

If you're getting pushed into this promotion, it could be they're sick of you on a lower level and would let you go. I say go for it but emotionally uninvolve yourself. Delegate your work so you get out after 40 hours like you morally should.

Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bowlofturtle] #4577357
11/17/17 06:44 PM
11/17/17 06:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 21,830
Orlando, FL
Mr Nice Offline
Mr Nice  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 21,830
Orlando, FL
A 5% pay raise is a slap in the face for all that extra responsibilities and stress.

Sounds like they'll use and abuse you for peanuts.

Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bowlofturtle] #4577450
11/17/17 07:51 PM
11/17/17 07:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 336
Texas,USA
ATex7239 Offline
ATex7239  Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 336
Texas,USA
If it don’t make dollars, it don’t make sense.


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'17 Ford Fusion (Company Lease) 54,xxx
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Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bigj_16] #4577498
11/17/17 08:30 PM
11/17/17 08:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,998
Santa Barbara, CA
surfstar Offline
surfstar  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,998
Santa Barbara, CA
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
"When on their deathbed, no one has ever said, 'I wish I would have spent more time at the office'."


THIS

There is some crazy talk in this thread. Life is more than work.


2016 Golf Sportwagen 5MT M1 0w40 LC20 RLI BioPlus
my other vehicle is a Roth IRA
Re: Take a poorly paid promotion? [Re: bowlofturtle] #4577877
11/18/17 09:46 AM
11/18/17 09:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,175
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,175
OH
From what you've written, taking the promotion might be a good defensive move.
More responsibility for a minimal pay increase seems troubling, but you may have no better choice.
You could otherwise end up working for an unqualified fool who might then badmouth you to his organizational peers for everything that goes wrong.
I find myself in this position at the moment, but it is fun to do as eljefino suggests and throw past emails back at 'em and I'm near enough to planned retirement now that I don't need to care too much.
Personally, I'd be perfectly happy doing my own thing at work without anyone reporting to me.
It isn't all that enjoyable to me to rely upon others to get the work done and you do get squeezed from both above and below.
You also get hit with the really difficult stuff that neither your subordinates nor your superiors can quite seem to do, although it is fun to be the go-to guy when nobody else has a clue.


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