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#4573651 - 11/14/17 10:08 AM sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3
2008wrx Offline


Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 188
Loc: CA
Do all these new little AWD vehicles have tight tires (tolerance)? Like, we replace tires, it must be all 4 at the same time?

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#4573666 - 11/14/17 10:26 AM Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: 2008wrx]
NormanBuntz Offline


Registered: 07/27/13
Posts: 2132
Loc: Outer Banks, NC
Unless you blow one, you shouldn't have to worry about it if you keep them rotated. No way a CX-3 or HR-V should be hard on tires.
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#4573747 - 11/14/17 12:07 PM Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: 2008wrx]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 6003
I don't know the exact setup of these two mico-CUVs, but here's how most great AWD systems tend to work, with my logic for saying that even tire wear all around would be important.

Front and rear are open differentials; however, stability and dynamic control (TCS and VDC, as an example) will not only cut power when wheel slip is detected, but selectively brake individual wheels that are sensed to be slipping. So, a minor difference in tire diameters likely won't have any affect, but mixing worn tires with new, left-to-right, might lower the marginbto when brakes are applied, potentially increasing wear. You'd have to research how their traction control scheme is setup.

The bigger concern, and likely more prevalent condition, is uneven wear, front-to-rear. In this case, and in very simple terms, when the center "differential" clutch engages to connect the front to rear, it will slip and increase wear if the front tires are spinning at a different rate than the rear tires. Luckily, the clutch likely doesn't engage unless front-to-rear slip is detected, at which point the clutch would be cycling to transfer power anyway.

So, differential tire wear would lower the margin to engagement of traction control, but how much wear would be induced at how much differential wear is hard to guess. The overall effect will likely be less than for a vehicle that had a true center differential or limited slip differential(s), but I wouldn't risk it; I'd ensure even tire wear and replace all tires if on or more needs to be replaced and the rest are worn significantly more.

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#4573760 - 11/14/17 12:24 PM Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: 2008wrx]
dlayman Offline


Registered: 12/21/14
Posts: 850
Loc: pennsylvania, usa
I know for sure that the CX3 has the tire equipment the OP is asking about, don't know on the Honda.

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#4573781 - 11/14/17 12:52 PM Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: 2008wrx]
glock19 Offline


Registered: 03/12/13
Posts: 764
Loc: Virginia
Not sure about the specific models, but I believe AWD systems generally require the tires be within 2/32-4/32"
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#4573825 - 11/14/17 01:52 PM Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: 2008wrx]
JohnnyJohnson Offline


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2774
Loc: Wet side WA
Another better idea to make you spend more money on your car.
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2004 Toyota Corolla 121808
Out: QSUD 5W-30 Purolator One 5030
In: Valvoline ML 5w-30 TG4967 117530 2-8-18
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Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73752 4-22-18

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#4573875 - 11/14/17 02:58 PM Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: gathermewool]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 6003
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I don't know the exact setup of these two mico-CUVs, but here's how most **GENERIC** AWD systems tend to work, with my logic for saying that even tire wear all around would be important.

Front and rear are open differentials; however, stability and dynamic control (TCS and VDC, as an example) will not only cut power when wheel slip is detected, but selectively brake individual wheels that are sensed to be slipping. So, a minor difference in tire diameters likely won't have any affect, but mixing worn tires with new, left-to-right, might lower the marginbto when brakes are applied, potentially increasing wear. You'd have to research how their traction control scheme is setup.

The bigger concern, and likely more prevalent condition, is uneven wear, front-to-rear. In this case, and in very simple terms, when the center "differential" clutch engages to connect the front to rear, it will slip and increase wear if the front tires are spinning at a different rate than the rear tires. Luckily, the clutch likely doesn't engage unless front-to-rear slip is detected, at which point the clutch would be cycling to transfer power anyway.

So, differential tire wear would lower the margin to engagement of traction control, but how much wear would be induced at how much differential wear is hard to guess. The overall effect will likely be less than for a vehicle that had a true center differential or limited slip differential(s), but I wouldn't risk it; I'd ensure even tire wear and replace all tires if on or more needs to be replaced and the rest are worn significantly more.


Auto-correct. Meant *generic* above

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#4573889 - 11/14/17 03:13 PM Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: 2008wrx]
2008wrx Offline


Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 188
Loc: CA
thanks for all the inputs... i can understand "got to pay to play" that's why our family is hesitated on these 3 models. we are kind of lazy; we have 2wd vehicles and we never rotate tire and we only buy 2 tires at a time LOL...

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#4573959 - 11/14/17 04:19 PM Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: 2008wrx]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 6003
Well, what do you need the AWD for? My very recently sold '08 Civic with Blizzaks was pretty darned good in the snow. A FWD vehicle with even more ground clearance would do pretty well in moderate snow/slush/ice. It will certain brake as well as any AWD vehicle.

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#4574656 - 11/15/17 08:24 AM Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: 2008wrx]
Miller88 Online   content


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 12706
Loc: Onondaga County
2WD with snow tires has never let me down in the snow!

In fact, I would have been perfectly happy if I could have got my Forester in either FWD or RWD.
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#4575108 - 11/15/17 03:10 PM Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: gathermewool]
UG_Passat Offline


Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 1970
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Well, what do you need the AWD for? My very recently sold '08 Civic with Blizzaks was pretty darned good in the snow. A FWD vehicle with even more ground clearance would do pretty well in moderate snow/slush/ice. It will certain brake as well as any AWD vehicle.


Well what do you need AWD for? why didn't you get a FWD HR-V or CR-V when you sold the Civic?
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#4575139 - 11/15/17 03:29 PM Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: UG_Passat]
Miller88 Online   content


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 12706
Loc: Onondaga County
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Well, what do you need the AWD for? My very recently sold '08 Civic with Blizzaks was pretty darned good in the snow. A FWD vehicle with even more ground clearance would do pretty well in moderate snow/slush/ice. It will certain brake as well as any AWD vehicle.


Well what do you need AWD for? why didn't you get a FWD HR-V or CR-V when you sold the Civic?


Probably the same boat I was in. I didn't want AWD and I tried to avoid it. But the Forester was the only vehicle on the market that met all of my criteria. So that's what I got even though it was AWD.
_________________________
18 Forester 2.5I 6M
00 Jeep Cherokee
01 Ford F-350 XL 4x4 5M

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#4575157 - 11/15/17 03:42 PM Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: 2008wrx]
nthach Offline


Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 3909
Loc: California
The HR-V should use Honda's Real-Time 4WD, which uses a simple PTO at the transaxle and a diff equipped with a dual oil pump mechanism along with a clutch in the back. Any differences between front and rear wheel speed will create a difference of oil flow between the 2 pumps which will engage the clutch to drive the rear wheels.

I'm not sure what Mazda uses, but seeing their past Ford/Volvo connection I wouldn't be surprised if it was an Haldex-based system.

I would try to keep the tires within 1/32-2/32" of each other and rotate religiously. I'm not sure if Honda or Mazda's system is as sensitive as Subaru or Audi, there have been reports of Toyota RAV4s with AWD trashing their PTOs due to sudden AWD engagement or tire size mismatch. It has happened on many Subarus with mismatched tires.

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#4575266 - 11/15/17 05:23 PM Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: UG_Passat]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 6003
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Well, what do you need the AWD for? My very recently sold '08 Civic with Blizzaks was pretty darned good in the snow. A FWD vehicle with even more ground clearance would do pretty well in moderate snow/slush/ice. It will certain brake as well as any AWD vehicle.


Well what do you need AWD for? why didn't you get a FWD HR-V or CR-V when you sold the Civic?


I never liked the Civic - I'm 6' tall, 200# and the coupe was very uncomfortable to get in and out of. I did not intend to replace it so soon, but the '15 Legacy was being sold with just the right features and for a very good price. The owner was from North Carolina until this year, and had zero rust or corrosion anywhere.

AWD isn't necessary, but I like Subarus and their safety rating is top notch. It also came with the Eyesight package.

Finally, the Civic was great in snow for the vast majority of snow days, just as a midsize FWD sedan would be with snow tires. The stopping power was great. With that said, the tires still spun and traction was questionable at times when I was snowed in or while driving in deep, slushy stuff, where the AWD maintains a truer track. When it's really bad, like it was during last winter's one white-out-bad snow storm, I opted to take the Forester (also with Blizzaks) and was able to fully stop and then get going, whereas many people stopped and were then stuck. Not only was I able to get going in that nasty stuff, but I was able to do so safely - no perceptible wheel spin and no fish-tailing at all. It was actually pretty amazing.

//

Anyway, my question wasn't to convince the OP he didn't need AWD - it was to simply ask IF he needed it ever or just liked the idea of it. He's from CA, so unless he's doing some light off-roading, beach driving or taking weekend trips to the mountains, the need for AWD is all but nonexistent. I wouldn't purchase AWD just to get better going power in wet weather, personally.

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#4575316 - 11/15/17 06:03 PM Re: sub-compact AWD vehicles HR-V C-HR CX3 [Re: 2008wrx]
nthach Offline


Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 3909
Loc: California
I'd get AWD to pass through chain control, but AWD is nothing without the right tires. A Subaru on winter tires is nearly invincible. However FWD does fine in the snow with winter tires but you'll still need chains if local rules require it.

Just don't be that guy thinking a BMW X5M can make it up Highway 50 towards Tahoe on Bridgestone Dueler Sport run-flats but had to pull over since they were losing traction fast. This was also during a winter storm alert, we happened to be the unlucky ones in a Forester with OEM Yokohamas behind it.

Top Gear thinks BMW's xDrive is worthless.

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