There is an old expression that seems to be appropriate for a fast battle group sailing in harm's way with all those young sailors manning their battle stations, "May you live in interesting times".
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Originally Posted By: blupupher
I saw something saying that a group had 2 attack subs attached to them, for offense and defense. Not sure how close they hung around though.
The Boomer subs are not attached. I read a while back that some of the Boomers have been retrofitted into Cruise missile subs, not sure if they are attached or not (I would think they are).
I am a huge fan of fast attack subs, especially the latest gen. that can carry 65 tomahawks/torpedoes
I saw something saying that a group had 2 attack subs attached to them, for offense and defense. Not sure how close they hung around though.
The Boomer subs are not attached. I read a while back that some of the Boomers have been retrofitted into Cruise missile subs, not sure if they are attached or not (I would think they are).
I am a huge fan of fast attack subs, especially the latest gen. that can carry 65 tomahawks/torpedoes
All I can say is that the guesses here are well intentioned but not even close to being accurate. Even in the carrier group photos, you will never get a real story of what it consists of. There are photo ops for commercials and PR, and then there is what really goes on in real life at sea.
Most of the advantage our military has is not being predictable enough to let other countries know 'exactly' what is going on behind the scenes. Let's just say that, all things considered, one of the safest places on the globe is to be stationed on an underway aircraft carrier.
It is the iron fist in a silk glove of mobile tactical strike force.
Most of the advantage our military has is not being predictable enough to let other countries know 'exactly' what is going on behind the scenes. Let's just say that, all things considered, one of the safest places on the globe is to be stationed on an underway aircraft carrier.
It is the iron fist in a silk glove of mobile tactical strike force.
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Let's just say that, all things considered, one of the safest places on the globe is to be stationed on an underway aircraft carrier.
I would guess if the shooting starts I will be safer sitting at my computer. Not beyond the realm of possibility. Several ship killing missiles could be made to strike a carrier at the same instant. The NK's couldn't pull it off but China could...Obviously suicide for them. But our response would have to be limited.
Let's just say that, all things considered, one of the safest places on the globe is to be stationed on an underway aircraft carrier.
I would guess if the shooting starts I will be safer sitting at my computer. Not beyond the realm of possibility. Several ship killing missiles could be made to strike a carrier at the same instant. The NK's couldn't pull it off but China could...Obviously suicide for them. But our response would have to be limited.
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
All I can say is that the guesses here are well intentioned but not even close to being accurate. Even in the carrier group photos, you will never get a real story of what it consists of. There are photo ops for commercials and PR, and then there is what really goes on in real life at sea.
Most of the advantage our military has is not being predictable enough to let other countries know 'exactly' what is going on behind the scenes. Let's just say that, all things considered, one of the safest places on the globe is to be stationed on an underway aircraft carrier.
It is the iron fist in a silk glove of mobile tactical strike force.
And Ithought I knew something after having served 10 yrs as OOD/Weapons Officer/Chief Engineer qualified on both SSBN/SSN's. Never was part of an official battle group as things were different pre-Iran/Iraq war. At times we did SSN exercises with some surface groups.
I had the choice early on of serving on a nuclear Carrier, Cruiser, or Submarine. It wasn't even a debate. I wanted to be on the platform least likely to get hit first if shooting broke out. Not being easily seen was a nice advantage....and being 1 of 115 vs. 1 of 5000 on the ship is a plus too. Maybe a carrier is considered by some to be one of the safest places to be stationed....my own feeling is that quiet nuclear subs were even safer...and you got paid more to be on them to boot. We haven't had an all shooting war at sea since WW2. I don't know about carriers being "safe." If the balloon ever goes up, every enemy missile, torpedo, bomb, aircraft, and EW jamming system within range is coming at that carrier. I pray their defenses can handle that mission. Projection of Sea Power abroad in general peace time is one thing...surviving all out ocean warfare is quite another. One cheap and very quiet diesel sub on the battery that slips through the defense screen can hurt that carrier. As long as the carrier can run around at 25-30 knots, she's a tougher target. I just hope our carriers are up to the task. The recent Destroyer collisions at sea give pause.
All I can say is that the guesses here are well intentioned but not even close to being accurate. Even in the carrier group photos, you will never get a real story of what it consists of. There are photo ops for commercials and PR, and then there is what really goes on in real life at sea.
Most of the advantage our military has is not being predictable enough to let other countries know 'exactly' what is going on behind the scenes. Let's just say that, all things considered, one of the safest places on the globe is to be stationed on an underway aircraft carrier.
It is the iron fist in a silk glove of mobile tactical strike force.
And Ithought I knew something after having served 10 yrs as OOD/Weapons Officer/Chief Engineer qualified on both SSBN/SSN's. Never was part of an official battle group as things were different pre-Iran/Iraq war. At times we did SSN exercises with some surface groups.
I had the choice early on of serving on a nuclear Carrier, Cruiser, or Submarine. It wasn't even a debate. I wanted to be on the platform least likely to get hit first if shooting broke out. Not being easily seen was a nice advantage....and being 1 of 115 vs. 1 of 5000 on the ship is a plus too. Maybe a carrier is considered by some to be one of the safest places to be stationed....my own feeling is that quiet nuclear subs were even safer...and you got paid more to be on them to boot. We haven't had an all shooting war at sea since WW2. I don't know about carriers being "safe." If the balloon ever goes up, every enemy missile, torpedo, bomb, aircraft, and EW jamming system within range is coming at that carrier. I pray their defenses can handle that mission. Projection of Sea Power abroad in general peace time is one thing...surviving all out ocean warfare is quite another. One cheap and very quiet diesel sub on the battery that slips through the defense screen can hurt that carrier. As long as the carrier can run around at 25-30 knots, she's a tougher target. I just hope our carriers are up to the task. The recent Destroyer collisions at sea give pause.
Lots of new capabilities out there. Mach 10 missiles coming from the edge of space? 250 kt super-cavitation torpedoes launched from hundreds of miles away? Drones with all sorts of capabilities. That's well beyond my knowledge.
Lots of what ifs in the comments section of a nuclear carrier survivability article.
Lots of what ifs in the comments section of a nuclear carrier survivability article.
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Lots of new capabilities out there. Mach 10 missiles coming from the edge of space? 250 kt super-cavitation torpedoes launched from hundreds of miles away? Drones with all sorts of capabilities. That's well beyond my knowledge.
Lots of what ifs in the comments section of a nuclear carrier survivability article.
My own thoughts are that battleships became obsolete in WWII...they were targets...supplanted by Aircraft Carriers. My current view is that Carriers today are the ultimate target..so much so that a considerable amount of the battle group's resources are aimed at protecting the carrier. And a large portion of the carrier's air aim is aimed at protecting the carrier. Not saying a carrier group is not formidable but for the cost you can have offensive tomahawk missles.
For the cost of a carrier you can purchase 10,000 cruise missles. Enough to obliterate any country on the face of the earth. The U.S.Naval institute and other independent think tanks have said as much. Its sadly though about service bragging rights and coppetition for resources which has been in play since WWII. So those of jyou who love carriers. Don't worry we will continue spending our borrowed $$$$$ for them.
Lots of new capabilities out there. Mach 10 missiles coming from the edge of space? 250 kt super-cavitation torpedoes launched from hundreds of miles away? Drones with all sorts of capabilities. That's well beyond my knowledge.
Lots of what ifs in the comments section of a nuclear carrier survivability article.
My own thoughts are that battleships became obsolete in WWII...they were targets...supplanted by Aircraft Carriers. My current view is that Carriers today are the ultimate target..so much so that a considerable amount of the battle group's resources are aimed at protecting the carrier. And a large portion of the carrier's air aim is aimed at protecting the carrier. Not saying a carrier group is not formidable but for the cost you can have offensive tomahawk missles.
For the cost of a carrier you can purchase 10,000 cruise missles. Enough to obliterate any country on the face of the earth. The U.S.Naval institute and other independent think tanks have said as much. Its sadly though about service bragging rights and coppetition for resources which has been in play since WWII. So those of jyou who love carriers. Don't worry we will continue spending our borrowed $$$$$ for them.
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My thinking on carriers is that they are on the verge of obsolescence. So much money, personnel and the rest are devoted to one carrier. Instead of a carrier with xx number of aircraft that can be scrambled, another idea would be a sea based platform with thousands of fighter drones that are remotely operated. We may not be there quite yet.
The vulnerability of a carrier is known. Case in point, the USS Ronald Reagan in its response during the Great Tohuko Earthquake in Japan that triggered the triple calamity. (earthquake, tsunami, nuclear plant meltdown). The Ronnie got caught in the radioactive waters and ended up out of service for two years if my memory is correct. A lot of piping had to be replaced on that relatively new carrier. Not to mention of course any crew that have or will have medical issues because of that radioactivity.
Serving on board the Coast Guard Cutter Confidence (WMEC619), I remember with fond memories the NBC drills we had at sea. Sitting with others in our assigned position deep in the bowels of the ship, with the water washdown system activated with it’s annoying sound, we would hear the announcement to assume the position. With several chuckles and comments we all knew what was really meant. This was in the seventies so the Cold War was still active.
The vulnerability of a carrier is known. Case in point, the USS Ronald Reagan in its response during the Great Tohuko Earthquake in Japan that triggered the triple calamity. (earthquake, tsunami, nuclear plant meltdown). The Ronnie got caught in the radioactive waters and ended up out of service for two years if my memory is correct. A lot of piping had to be replaced on that relatively new carrier. Not to mention of course any crew that have or will have medical issues because of that radioactivity.
Serving on board the Coast Guard Cutter Confidence (WMEC619), I remember with fond memories the NBC drills we had at sea. Sitting with others in our assigned position deep in the bowels of the ship, with the water washdown system activated with it’s annoying sound, we would hear the announcement to assume the position. With several chuckles and comments we all knew what was really meant. This was in the seventies so the Cold War was still active.
Originally Posted By: PimTac
My thinking on carriers is that they are on the verge of obsolescence. So much money, personnel and the rest are devoted to one carrier. Instead of a carrier with xx number of aircraft that can be scrambled, another idea would be a sea based platform with thousands of fighter drones that are remotely operated. We may not be there quite yet.
Its refreshing to hear an X Navy Man imply that the "King of the Waves..Almighty Carrier" may be turning into a White Elephant (My words not yours).
I know a bunch of Navy folks as I had worked in the Nuclear Power Field...its loaded with Navy Nukes. Few of them are able to think outside the box. Or more correctly choose not to think outside the box. And thank you for your service.
My thinking on carriers is that they are on the verge of obsolescence. So much money, personnel and the rest are devoted to one carrier. Instead of a carrier with xx number of aircraft that can be scrambled, another idea would be a sea based platform with thousands of fighter drones that are remotely operated. We may not be there quite yet.
Its refreshing to hear an X Navy Man imply that the "King of the Waves..Almighty Carrier" may be turning into a White Elephant (My words not yours).
I know a bunch of Navy folks as I had worked in the Nuclear Power Field...its loaded with Navy Nukes. Few of them are able to think outside the box. Or more correctly choose not to think outside the box. And thank you for your service.
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Originally Posted By: Camprunner
Just wondering in a navy battle group is an Admiral usually the highest rank? More than one? And what ship would he usually be on I assume the aircraft carrier? Also are subs part of a battle group or are they off on there own?
OK, so, back on topic...
The Navy typically organizes forces into "Strike Groups". The Carrier is the centerpiece of a Carrier Strike Group (CSG) and the Amphibious Assault Ship is the centerpiece of an Expeditionary Strike Group (ESG). Ship complement in the group depends on the available ships, but every CSG/ESG will have an Arleigh Burke and/or Ticonderoga ship (AEGIS) for air defense/surface warfare and ASW. Submarines are generally part of a CSG.
There are numbered/named CSGs and ESGs on each coast. Each is commanded by an Admiral. The admiral has a staff. Each will have a carrier/Amphib and other forces assigned as the mission requires. There is a strike group on each coast (CSG-4 on the East Coast, CSG-15 on the west) that trains/certifies other strike groups (and independently deploying ships) as ready for deployment.
The admiral is generally a 1-star (Rear Admiral lower half), but is often a 2-star (Rear Admiral). A CSG is a big step in a flag officer's career. They get selected to command one after successful performance in a 1-star job prior to the CSG/ESG, so they are often selected for the promotion just prior to taking command, or while in command, of the CSG/ESG.
The centerpiece ship (carrier or amphib) has the spaces and systems to support the Admiral and his staff. They're built that way. So, the admiral embarks on that ship and it is the "flagship" of the ESG/CSG.
In the days of fighting sail, the Admiral wouldn't have much of a staff, and would choose one of the ships of the line from which to command. So that all the other ships knew which ship to follow, the admiral's pennant (flag) would be flown as the highest signal flag on that ship. Hence, "flagship". Orders to other were given by flags flown below the admiral's pennant.
"England Expects Every Man Will Do His Duty" was flown from HMS Victory, Nelson's flagship, just prior to engaging the French at Trafalgar. Now, that was a set of orders, flow as signal flags, but it was superfluous. Nelson briefed his commanders the night before and each knew their commander's expectations and their roles in the upcoming fight. Nelson sent the orders via flag, knowing that they would be read aloud on every ship, to motivate his crews.
So, to this day, the admiral's ship is a "flagship" and officers above the rank of Captain are referred to as "Flag Officers".
Cheers,
Just wondering in a navy battle group is an Admiral usually the highest rank? More than one? And what ship would he usually be on I assume the aircraft carrier? Also are subs part of a battle group or are they off on there own?
OK, so, back on topic...
The Navy typically organizes forces into "Strike Groups". The Carrier is the centerpiece of a Carrier Strike Group (CSG) and the Amphibious Assault Ship is the centerpiece of an Expeditionary Strike Group (ESG). Ship complement in the group depends on the available ships, but every CSG/ESG will have an Arleigh Burke and/or Ticonderoga ship (AEGIS) for air defense/surface warfare and ASW. Submarines are generally part of a CSG.
There are numbered/named CSGs and ESGs on each coast. Each is commanded by an Admiral. The admiral has a staff. Each will have a carrier/Amphib and other forces assigned as the mission requires. There is a strike group on each coast (CSG-4 on the East Coast, CSG-15 on the west) that trains/certifies other strike groups (and independently deploying ships) as ready for deployment.
The admiral is generally a 1-star (Rear Admiral lower half), but is often a 2-star (Rear Admiral). A CSG is a big step in a flag officer's career. They get selected to command one after successful performance in a 1-star job prior to the CSG/ESG, so they are often selected for the promotion just prior to taking command, or while in command, of the CSG/ESG.
The centerpiece ship (carrier or amphib) has the spaces and systems to support the Admiral and his staff. They're built that way. So, the admiral embarks on that ship and it is the "flagship" of the ESG/CSG.
In the days of fighting sail, the Admiral wouldn't have much of a staff, and would choose one of the ships of the line from which to command. So that all the other ships knew which ship to follow, the admiral's pennant (flag) would be flown as the highest signal flag on that ship. Hence, "flagship". Orders to other were given by flags flown below the admiral's pennant.
"England Expects Every Man Will Do His Duty" was flown from HMS Victory, Nelson's flagship, just prior to engaging the French at Trafalgar. Now, that was a set of orders, flow as signal flags, but it was superfluous. Nelson briefed his commanders the night before and each knew their commander's expectations and their roles in the upcoming fight. Nelson sent the orders via flag, knowing that they would be read aloud on every ship, to motivate his crews.
So, to this day, the admiral's ship is a "flagship" and officers above the rank of Captain are referred to as "Flag Officers".
Cheers,
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