Is middle class really at least 6 figures?

[Bronco1]

National averages are pretty meaningless in reality but, they make for easy talking points for politicians and news casters. It really comes down to where you live. Before I retired, the wife and I made a good living probably in the neighborhood of $150k-180k (that's both the wife and I combined). We were in the lower end of middle class there. In retirement in CO, our retirement income , which is less, ends up fairly similar in terms of our cost of living. Were we in the midwest, it would probably be even better. Housing markets are a huge part of it. The equivalent of my home here in CO would probably be worth at least $300k-500k back in the Inland Empire of So Cal where I used to live.
I tend to agree with those who feel that we in the middle class are on a slippery slope towards the bottom though. I imagine that of my three kids, only the oldest who is in the military will be the only one who could potentially, live the "American Dream" (buy his own home using his GI bill benefits) if he so chose. I expect others based on where they live, the others will always be renters. The net effect to health care is similar although the factors impacting cost are different.

 

[LoneRanger]

Single in southern Indiana and living like a king on 75K/yr. Six figures would be nice but I'm fine as is. Raised in a blue collar family of seven by Greatest Generation parents who themselves were raised during the Great Depression, so thrift was instilled in us kids early in life.

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
In 2002, I applied for a mortgage in Palm Beach county, FL. I asked the banker what the typical income was for mortgage applicants. He replied with something like "oh, that's easy, $172,400". My income was half that, and I was shocked at his typical figures.

However, when I fly over Palm Beach county, it's clearly chock-a-block full of wealth, very large and impressive homes stretch as far as the eye can see. Over 100 miles of coastline, completely full of significant wealth, from Miami to Stuart.

I'm middle class, yet I live at the outskirts of town, the very West end, backing right up to the everglades, where the cheapest homes are. I'm proud of my lifestyle and my home. However, I'm a stone's throw from poverty.


15 years ago everyone qualified for a home loan so of course $172K was the norm since banks didn't bother to verify and realtors wanted their commission even though they knew the home buyers couldn't afford the property.

With an ARM and low income buyers..... it was a disaster on the horizon. Back then you could be a cashier at Publix and quality for a $300K house with $0 down.

Lots of cash poor folks living in a Palm Beach up to their eyeballs in debt. Find out their real net worth and you'll laugh you [censored] off.

 

[LoneRanger]

When figuring one's net worth, are retirement acct's like 401's & 457's factored in? Market value of vehicles? I'm not sure how to calculate net worth and too lazy to google it.

 

[mazdamonky]

I personally make around 30-35k a year. Where I live, this pretty much has me settled in with my parents. combined, my parents and I make around $100k. This provides a life where we aren't exactly left lacking, but we don't have really nice things and we can't afford to go on yearly vacations and such. We aren't really left hurting when emergencies occur such as a large appliance needing work or a car needs major work in the range of $1000 plus. But we are all stuck driving 10+ year old cars.

 

[JTK]

I would say for a married couple with two kids, $100K is comfortably in the middle class for a good portion of the States. My wife and I don't gross much more than that and have 4 school aged kids. It's tight. Real tight, but we have retirement savings, a nice home in a great area. The kids play sports, instruments, etc.. It takes work to live within your means for sure.

 

[Dumc87]

Originally Posted By: mazdamonky
I personally make around 30-35k a year. Where I live, this pretty much has me settled in with my parents. combined, my parents and I make around $100k. This provides a life where we aren't exactly left lacking, but we don't have really nice things and we can't afford to go on yearly vacations and such. We aren't really left hurting when emergencies occur such as a large appliance needing work or a car needs major work in the range of $1000 plus. But we are all stuck driving 10+ year old cars.


I'm not sure that's a bad thing, living with parents. I know it's not "suppose to be" or whatever, but it's kind of nice (sometimes) to have family as roommates.

And some of the best cars are 10+ years old

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
When figuring one's net worth, are retirement acct's like 401's & 457's factored in? Market value of vehicles? I'm not sure how to calculate net worth and too lazy to google it.

Net worth calculators can be found online.

You just plug in the REAL numbers and you'll find out if you're a poser..... or the real deal.

Unfortunately lots of Americans are under a mountain of crazy debt, they stand back and admire their over leveraged house, fancy vehicles, boat, Harley Davidson motorcycle, glitter and glam jewelry, big screen TVs, expensive trinkets, etc..., etc....

 

[DBMaster]

Ranger, you are on the right track. Net worth is pretty easily calculated as total assets minus total liabilities. I don't think that the majority of those considered "middle class" have positive net worth these days. If you do, pat yourself on the back. What is really depressing is that the "recommended" amount of retirement savings to have socked away by age 55 is seven times your annual income (don't know if that's gross or net). I'm doing pretty well, but I'm afraid mine is, at most, three times annual gross income. You have to be careful as kids get older. You want to minimize their debt for education, but not to your detriment by using retirement savings. That's a tough situation for many. I really think a lot of it depends upon your debt tolerance. There are those who can sleep comfortably every night when they're one layoff away from bankruptcy. At the same time there are those who get cold sweats if they fail to put a certain percentage of their income into savings with every paycheck.

I try not to pay too much attention to statistics that indicate wealth distribution is pretty much the most uneven that it's ever been in the U.S. Nothing short of a revolution (not necessarily a violent one) is going to change that, if we think it SHOULD be changed. They taught us in school that the U.S. is supposed to have a "classless" society. This thread really made me think about how to define middle class, but I still can't do it.

 

[HangFire]

That thrivers chart has so little going for it.

Young person finish college with huge debt and useless degree? Straggler.

Young person finish college with moderate debt and in-demand degree? Thriver.

Minorities finishing college with in-demand degrees? Why are so many colleges serving Minorities with low pay, small opportunity majors? So what's really causal here?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
That thrivers chart has so little going for it.

Plus the only way to be thriver is to be born white or Asian. No amount of education can make you a thriver. LOL

 

[ZZman]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster


I try not to pay too much attention to statistics that indicate wealth distribution is pretty much the most uneven that it's ever been in the U.S. Nothing short of a revolution (not necessarily a violent one) is going to change that, if we think it SHOULD be changed. They taught us in school that the U.S. is supposed to have a "classless" society.


When the middle class was growing the most income and wealth inequality was low. Of course we should. It would be in the best interest of America and its citizens to have a more equatable distribution of wealth. Classless society is impossible and would never happen. But fairer is possible. Civilizations lived thru the king/land baron and serf days. The slave and slave owner days. We lived thru the unions demanding a bigger piece of the pie days. It can happen.
Wealth has always be redistributed. The question is do we want it redistributed up to the few or down to the masses?

 

[CincyDavid]

I might argue that the post-WWII housing boom and growth of middle-class suburbia was a geopolitical fluke that would have never happened aside from a huge, really costly war. I hate to be a pessimist, but I think we're observing/participating in the end of the modern Roman Empire...the 21st century may very well become the "Pan-Asian" century. My grandparents were very much blue collar(postal carrier and operated a service station), 3 had high school diplomas, my maternal grandfather had about 6th grade education. Both sets of grandparents owned their homes, but they were tiny little bungalows. Each set of grandparents had one automobile. My parents thrived in the 1960s as they reached adulthood, both had college degrees and good career opportunities. I think I may have been born one generation too late...

Things keep changing, it's the nature of society.

 

[Bronco1]

Originally Posted By: Dumc87


I'm not sure that's a bad thing, living with parents. I know it's not "suppose to be" or whatever, but it's kind of nice (sometimes) to have family as roommates.

And some of the best cars are 10+ years old

Most parents I know would disagree ;-)

 

[DBMaster]

Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
I might argue that the post-WWII housing boom and growth of middle-class suburbia was a geopolitical fluke that would have never happened aside from a huge, really costly war. I hate to be a pessimist, but I think we're observing/participating in the end of the modern Roman Empire...the 21st century may very well become the "Pan-Asian" century. My grandparents were very much blue collar(postal carrier and operated a service station), 3 had high school diplomas, my maternal grandfather had about 6th grade education. Both sets of grandparents owned their homes, but they were tiny little bungalows. Each set of grandparents had one automobile. My parents thrived in the 1960s as they reached adulthood, both had college degrees and good career opportunities. I think I may have been born one generation too late...

Things keep changing, it's the nature of society.



You and me both, amigo. This reads a lot like my background.

 

[HangFire]

We (USA) are still a nation of: available land, abundant natural resources, minimal border threats, and reasonably sized population. If we fail to thrive, it's our own fault.

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
We (USA) are still a nation of: available land, abundant natural resources, minimal border threats, and reasonably sized population. If we fail to thrive, it's our own fault.


Those reasons you mentioned is why the American Dream is still alive.

It's not like we are living in Haiti with no running water or electricity. We are in the USA, a land of opportunity.

It doesn't matter your skin color, if you want to be successful.... nobody can hold you back. Forget what CNN says about race in 2017.

For the record:
Both my parents are immigrants and barely spoke any English in the late 1950's when they came to America.

 

[PandaBear]

Location matter, around here 100k is poverty line.

 

[zuluplus30]

Originally Posted By: robertcope
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Dumc87
Maybe I missed a huge exit off this highway of life, cause $50K seems luxurious to me.


Same here! $50K income here in Tx will buy you a mansion. DFW,Tx was ranked as the most affordable big city in the US to live,followed by Houston recently. Middle class here is in the $30K range.


You have to be joking. Maybe in some parts of Texas. In Houston, DFW, Austin, $30K is poverty range. Middle class might start in the $100K range here in Houston. Maybe. I'd probably call it $125-150. Just my warped view, of course.


Lol my thought exactly. $50K in Southlake is like being on food stamps.

 

[ZZman]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
We (USA) are still a nation of: available land, abundant natural resources, minimal border threats, and reasonably sized population. If we fail to thrive, it's our own fault.

I suppose in simple terms that is true. But why we are who we are or why we turn out the way we do is complicated. It has much to do with upbringing, intelligence, opportunities, connections and so much more. We could say it is our fault if we end up in prison, an alcoholic, a drug addiction, poor and on welfare, commit suicide, have PTSD etc. What that doesn't tell us is why we turned out that way. The mind is our friend or worst enemy.