Are we taking a step backwards with D.I. Engines?

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Originally Posted By: dave123
100k+ on my skyactiv DI Mazda3 runs like day I bought it not one single issue yet. Although I may be biased but I think they have best technology hands down.


Ditto for my 2007 MS3, it was running fine at 158,000 miles when I traded it.
 
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Originally Posted By: dishdude
I've had a few DI cars now, no issues to report.


Right but none of those cars you had very long.


No issues with my 158,000 mile MS3.
Ditto for my 107,000 mile Clubman.
Likewise, my 37,000 mile 2 Series. Speaking of which, if a coupe powered by a 3 liter DI turbo that makes over 320 hp, runs the 1/4 mile in the high 12s, and averages over 26 mpg is a step backward, I'm all in...
 
Originally Posted By: 5AcresAndAFool

Am I just being stubborn?


Dunno, depends what you drive.

Pre 1970 = Wise, Lucky, Rich

1970 - 1990 : Stubborn

1990 - 2000 : Reckless or desperate

2000 - date: More money than sense

Now I know I am painting a broad stroke here.
 
If "Fearless Leader" has his way, EPA will be gutted. Obama's EPA mandate for a fleet average of 35 mpg maybe scrapped??? My '16 Camry LE gets 35+ Mpg in mixed driving. It is kinda like my brother's saying Accuracy greater than the demands of the job is a wasted effort"
 
Originally Posted By: 5AcresAndAFool
We haven't seen a whole lot of issues with fuel dilution since the carburetor days until recently. These Engines with direct injection seem to have alot of issues, enough that its to the point I think i would avoid buying one if possible.

I hate to sound like "that guy", but can these direct injection engines get 300k plus on them with no issues like many recent gasoline engines?

Now I know I am painting a broad stroke here, I am sure some are more problematic than others, but they all seem hard on their oil to an extent, and many have fuel dilution issues.

Am I just being stubborn?


You currently own an 05 and 09 Toyota. If Toyota goes GDI before you're ready to move up will you buy older used or will you change brands or will you stick with the one you like?

How many people leave a favored brand because of a certain feature?
 
Originally Posted By: 5AcresAndAFool
We haven't seen a whole lot of issues with fuel dilution since the carburetor days until recently. These Engines with direct injection seem to have alot of issues, enough that its to the point I think i would avoid buying one if possible.

I hate to sound like "that guy", but can these direct injection engines get 300k plus on them with no issues like many recent gasoline engines?

Now I know I am painting a broad stroke here, I am sure some are more problematic than others, but they all seem hard on their oil to an extent, and many have fuel dilution issues.

Am I just being stubborn?



You can buy Crown Vics and join the "I will never buy a new car with new fangled technology club" here on BITOG.

I just bought a new car with all that stuff (D.I., all the driver assist electronics, etc. Android, Apple Car play). We are enjoying it tremendously-I will let you know down the road.
 
I like how Toyota does direct and port injection in the same engine for efficiency and to keep the intake valves clean. I guess in 10 years we’ll see how reliable these engines really are.
 
The carbon buildup is more of an issue IMHO. no fuel on the valve seat to keep deposits from the PCV at bay.
 
Originally Posted By: andyd
If "Fearless Leader" has his way, EPA will be gutted. Obama's EPA mandate for a fleet average of 35 mpg maybe scrapped??? My '16 Camry LE gets 35+ Mpg in mixed driving. It is kinda like my brother's saying Accuracy greater than the demands of the job is a wasted effort"


Might as well scrap CAFE. It's a joke because it don't apply to trucks. It's amazing the number of 13 mpg 2500 series pickups people commute with and otherwise drive as a ridiculous daily driver.
 
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Originally Posted By: 5AcresAndAFool
We haven't seen a whole lot of issues with fuel dilution since the carburetor days until recently. These Engines with direct injection seem to have alot of issues, enough that its to the point I think i would avoid buying one if possible.

I hate to sound like "that guy", but can these direct injection engines get 300k plus on them with no issues like many recent gasoline engines?

Now I know I am painting a broad stroke here, I am sure some are more problematic than others, but they all seem hard on their oil to an extent, and many have fuel dilution issues.

Am I just being stubborn?


You currently own an 05 and 09 Toyota. If Toyota goes GDI before you're ready to move up will you buy older used or will you change brands or will you stick with the one you like?

How many people leave a favored brand because of a certain feature?


If there are no noted issues with Toyota GDI I would get one. But Toyota is falling off my list. Toyota can't even design doors that don't fail, at least back in 05. Our sienna has the door check problem, leaking rack, seat belt failure, dash failure ect... which to Toyota credit, the dash and seatbelts they fixed via recall.

Then there the oil burning scion.

I'm starting to look into hyundais, I haven't heard much bad abut them.

I was actually looking at 2010 malibus, 4k less than a camry, look good, and nice features. But I have read about direct injection issues on them among other things.
 
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Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: 5AcresAndAFool
We haven't seen a whole lot of issues with fuel dilution since the carburetor days until recently. These Engines with direct injection seem to have alot of issues, enough that its to the point I think i would avoid buying one if possible.

I hate to sound like "that guy", but can these direct injection engines get 300k plus on them with no issues like many recent gasoline engines?

Now I know I am painting a broad stroke here, I am sure some are more problematic than others, but they all seem hard on their oil to an extent, and many have fuel dilution issues.

Am I just being stubborn?



You can buy Crown Vics and join the "I will never buy a new car with new fangled technology club" here on BITOG.

I just bought a new car with all that stuff (D.I., all the driver assist electronics, etc. Android, Apple Car play). We are enjoying it tremendously-I will let you know down the road.


I love technology. It's just the fact that it needs to be reliable.

I.e. chrysler, they couldn't make a 4spd automatic last. They have no business making a 9 speed transmission. Show me you can make a 4 speed last at least 200k, then we will talk about a 9 speed.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Where are all these problems?

No fuel dilution in my car at all.


I've seen a lot of posts on here referring to gasoline in the oil. It's probably only certain emgines.
 
Different experience with my '14 2.4 DI Accord. Mine both diluted and used some oil. Seemed to run hot,some vibration at idle,and noisey. I think Honda just went too far,too fast,with DI because of CAFE. I would think(hope) in a few more years they will have the DI sorted out. Toyota just changed their 2.5 to DI with port injection and now Motor Trend says the 2018 2.5 Camry runs a little rough.
 
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
I'm not sure how it's a step backwards. It's supposed to give you better mpg and more power or pick one over the other. Mercedes went to DI in 2012 in their E class. Went from 268hp in the previous 3.5L engine to 302hp in their new engine and it got better gas mileage too. Went from 17 city/24 highway to 19 city/28 highway afterwards.


It's a step backwards in my book IF there are reliability issues, or longevity issues, or if the vehicle needs 3k OCI to deal with dilution...

People driving an new E class could care less what the engine looks like in 15 years, 200k miles.

I do because I'm poor and I drive old junk.
 
Originally Posted By: 5AcresAndAFool
People driving an new E class could care less what the engine looks like in 15 years, 200k miles.

I do because I'm poor and I drive old junk.


And that's the key issue. Manufacturers are making cars to last the warranty+10-15%. GDI's soot issues are similar to diesel soot issues (remember all diesels are direct injected.) where if you sit at idle for long periods of time you'll have issues. Every now and then you need to give them the good old Italian tune-up.

Other issues are related to crank case breathers and EGR which causes sludge deposits in the inlet manifold and on the backs of valves. but that's a whole other kettle of fish. Race cars don't sludge because they don't cycle soot and oil back into the intake, funny that
wink.gif
DI or Not...

Me however, Port Injection Forever!!!!
Jordan
 
Originally Posted By: 5AcresAndAFool
... I.e. chrysler, they couldn't make a 4spd automatic last. They have no business making a 9 speed transmission. Show me you can make a 4 speed last at least 200k, then we will talk about a 9 speed.



Nothing wrong with the latest 4 speeds from Chrysler now that they modified the partial lock-up mode and put external coolers after the radiator cooler. As for some of the others these are hybrid Mercedes / Chrysler designs and have proven themselves to be quite durable even with "Filled For Life" service schedules.

Now going back 15 years or more I would agree with you.
 
My son has a 2008 Cadillac with a DI 3.6 180,000 miles and not one maintenance/repair issue related to the direct injection. More horsepower and better fuel mileage, what's not to like?
 
Originally Posted By: 5AcresAndAFool
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Originally Posted By: 5AcresAndAFool
We haven't seen a whole lot of issues with fuel dilution since the carburetor days until recently. These Engines with direct injection seem to have alot of issues, enough that its to the point I think i would avoid buying one if possible.

I hate to sound like "that guy", but can these direct injection engines get 300k plus on them with no issues like many recent gasoline engines?

Now I know I am painting a broad stroke here, I am sure some are more problematic than others, but they all seem hard on their oil to an extent, and many have fuel dilution issues.

Am I just being stubborn?


You currently own an 05 and 09 Toyota. If Toyota goes GDI before you're ready to move up will you buy older used or will you change brands or will you stick with the one you like?

How many people leave a favored brand because of a certain feature?



If there are no noted issues with Toyota GDI I would get one. But Toyota is falling off my list. Toyota can't even design doors that don't fail, at least back in 05. Our sienna has the door check problem, leaking rack, seat belt failure, dash failure ect... which to Toyota credit, the dash and seatbelts they fixed via recall.

Then there the oil burning scion.

I'm starting to look into hyundais, I haven't heard much bad abut them.

I was actually looking at 2010 malibus, 4k less than a camry, look good, and nice features. But I have read about direct injection issues on them among other things.

So I've driven both cars that you mentioned here.

I put about 5k miles on a 2010 Malibu (it wasn't mine) and while the ride was really quite comfortable, that thing steered like a boat. I couldn't stand its poor turning radius. It also got very average mpg, though it was a 4 cylinder that I felt the car was too big for. However, those were my only complaints with it. It was overall a good car with minimal road noise and handled the winters of northern Idaho very well.

I own a '17 Elantra and my mother-in-law drives a '15 Accent and both vehicles have been great so far (knock on wood). The Accent has about 65k miles on it and has only been to the shop once for a recall and my Elantra has averaged over 38 mpg over the life of the vehicle (by my own calculations) with no issues. Neither one will ever get mistaken for a race car, but they are highly efficient and, in the case of my Elantra, pretty high tech. I have the heated seats, leather steering wheel, back up camera, apple carplay and android auto, cross-traffic detection and blind spot monitoring all for $14,800 OTD. To get that same package in a Civic or Corolla, you're going to be paying more and receiving DI and a CVT transmission rather than the MPI and 6 speed in the Elantra. In short, it's a great car for the money and I'd buy it again.
 
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Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: 5AcresAndAFool
... I.e. chrysler, they couldn't make a 4spd automatic last. They have no business making a 9 speed transmission. Show me you can make a 4 speed last at least 200k, then we will talk about a 9 speed.



Nothing wrong with the latest 4 speeds from Chrysler now that they modified the partial lock-up mode and put external coolers after the radiator cooler. As for some of the others these are hybrid Mercedes / Chrysler designs and have proven themselves to be quite durable even with "Filled For Life" service schedules.

Now going back 15 years or more I would agree with you.



The time frame that I was referencing was about 15 years ago that's back when I was a Auto Tech.

Even after they got the ultradrive straighten out it seemed like they still had issues. Now my parents have a fifteen-year-old caravan with a 4-speed automatic there is a 2.4 L 4-cylinder behind it and it never sees much weight and only has about 80,000 miles on it and that Transmissions been flawless.
 
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