E15 Arrives in DFW

[danielLD]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
My mpg after a tank and a half of E15 has been reading 1 mpg more than the long term average (35 v 34 on my Mazda3 Skyactiv). Since I do not consider that significant I guess I could claim that gas mileage with E15 is not different from that with E10. The car is definitely more responsive from a stop, however, the ambient temperatures here recently dropped due to the normal fall cold fronts. This is the problem with anecdotal evidence.

I'm going to keep using it for a while.


EPA puts the difference at 2% fuel economy loss from E10 to E15. How many of us would that make a difference? They don't even take into calculation less deposits, cleaner engines.

Yes, on the skyactiv, timing is everything, E15 is usually 88-89 octane. Meaning, your engine advances timing and actually makes up for the few BTUs lost in energy from E10(112,500BTU) to what ever E15 is, I believe 108,00 BTU.

Our fuels should all be a minimum of 93, with 97 for luxury vehicles.

 

[SilverFusion2010]

It wouldn't surprise me if current engine technologies end up pushing fuels to higher octane levels.. it's amazing that so many of these high compression engines can run on 87. Though often they run smoother with more output on higher octane.

I wish there was an e85 station around here so I could play with it. My car is supposed to make another 10 hp on e85

 

[DBMaster]

America is hooked on cheap fuel. The European and Japanese Skyactiv models get higher compression engines due to their fuel being higher octane. I don't know about a minimum of 93, but we would be doing ourselves a favor by increasing the minimum to 89 or 90.

 

[danielLD]

89 and 90 is barely a change. 93 should be the minimum with 97 and 98 as optimal. Likely won't happen, electric is close to a break through.

 

[DBMaster]

Originally Posted By: danielLD
89 and 90 is barely a change. 93 should be the minimum with 97 and 98 as optimal. Likely won't happen, electric is close to a break through.


Wow! That is exactly what I was thinking, too! Great minds!

 

[B320i]

Cheap fuel abounds here too.

Friend of mine has a late-model Holden Cruze, and noted significant gains (including in the transmission, strangely) just by switching to 98RON (U.S. 93 or thereabouts).

 

[DBMaster]

I'm liking the driving experience with E15 and my fuel economy remains virtually unchanged (1 mpg higher per the dash display, but that is not significant). I guess using this stuff along with my 30,000 mile OCIs on microGreen filters will blow up my engine in short order.

 

[danielLD]

Well, newer engines thrive on more ethanol usage, it's a 1% theoretical drop in fuel economy from the drop in raw energy(BTUs) but those EPA studies don't even factor in timing advancement. How many of us can measure a 1% difference?

2. Your engine will stay cleaner with less deposits, in the long run, cleaner engine with less deposits equals better fuel economy.

3. Wish more cars were flex fuel, it's something like $600 for the OE to make a car flex capable. Shame, for the ethanol market, here is an interesting note. The oil industry stands to lose billions, I think around 8 from what I read, if we make the move to E15. Imagine what would happen if we had E25, oh boy!

4. The oil industry is starting to feel the effects of better fuel economy and electric. By 2025, electric will be in every car and the oil industry will be in shambles, well until you remember Shell and BP own most solar patents out there and the monopoly starts all over again, LOL.

 

[danielLD]

Originally Posted By: B320i
Cheap fuel abounds here too.

Friend of mine has a late-model Holden Cruze, and noted significant gains (including in the transmission, strangely) just by switching to 98RON (U.S. 93 or thereabouts).


I wonder if the car it is just a result of the engine running smoother and as a result, it feels as if the trans is running better. 93 in most fuels also has the additives that the cheaper gas doesn't, so it runs quite a bit cleaner.

 

[TheKracken]

If Costco sold E15 or E85 I would use it in my vehicles. I add TCW3 to every tank to lubricate the fuel system, I wouldn't mind having E15 to have my fuel system cleaner....but currently paying 2.06 a gallon at costco for gas just seems too good.

 

[DBMaster]

Americans are addicted to cheap fuel, I'll say it again. Even though is is VERY cheap right now compared to just a few years ago AND when adjusted for inflation compared to the "good old days" we still worry about pennies. It's never ceased to amaze me that people will go out of their way to save a few pennies per gallon. In a car like mine that gets 36 mpg combined fuel economy I often don't even look at the price first unless I'm on a trip. There are times when you CAN get ripped off, but with gas being a highly competitive commodity those situations are pretty rare.

The GM plant in Arlington can't build enough thirsty full-size SUVs. That tells me just how insignificant fuel costs are to a lot of folks.

 

[JustinH]

Hyundai says don't use anything over e10 in their vehicles.

It will be interesting to see how many people have problems with e15.

I drove up to DFW last weekend and paid $2.02 for a gallon of 87 at a truck stop along the way e10.

I would say people don't care, judging by the full size SUV's and pickups all over the place.

 

[danielLD]

Originally Posted By: JustinH
Hyundai says don't use anything over e10 in their vehicles.

It will be interesting to see how many people have problems with e15.

I drove up to DFW last weekend and paid $2.02 for a gallon of 87 at a truck stop along the way e10.

I would say people don't care, judging by the full size SUV's and pickups all over the place.


Haha DB, MY mother in law will drive 15 minutes to save 2 cents.

Justin, your car can handle E35. Hyundai just doesn't want people experimenting at a pump and then be held liable. It's like breaking in an engine, the GT-R manual, one of the few that really says, go out and rip this thing, also says stay under the speed limit. [censored], the GT-R second gear is at 70mph lol.

The worst case if you put E85 in your vehicle is you might get a CEL. Even then, I've been putting full tanks of E85 in my Lexus RC-F if I know I'm not going to go up to redline, computer still hasn't picked up on what I'm doing.

I remember when gas was expensive and all the people whining, gas went down, Suburbans were back on the street. With the hybridization of most vehicles by 2020, we will probably see better city economy in most of those SUVs, making them even more popular. I don't get it, I'm a sedan/coupe kind of guy but every woman I know is drooling over a CUV/SUV. Since when do sedans not have enough trunk space for groceries? Even the police only want explorers. LOL

 

[danielLD]

Originally Posted By: JustinH
Hyundai says don't use anything over e10 in their vehicles.

It will be interesting to see how many people have problems with e15.

I drove up to DFW last weekend and paid $2.02 for a gallon of 87 at a truck stop along the way e10.

I would say people don't care, judging by the full size SUV's and pickups all over the place.


Forgot to add, no one will have issues with E15. any car since 2001 according to the EPA can run E15, no problem.

I think it's really more like 1998.

 

[AP9]

Originally Posted By: danielLD
Originally Posted By: JustinH
Hyundai says don't use anything over e10 in their vehicles.

It will be interesting to see how many people have problems with e15.

I drove up to DFW last weekend and paid $2.02 for a gallon of 87 at a truck stop along the way e10.

I would say people don't care, judging by the full size SUV's and pickups all over the place.


Forgot to add, no one will have issues with E15. any car since 2001 according to the EPA can run E15, no problem.

I think it's really more like 1998.



Ah, so nice to know that I'm a "no one"

I'd like to see a full DVP&R from all the retesting the EPA has conducted on elastomer sealing compatibility testing, polyamide tubing aged swell testing, and various other validation tests that OEM component manufacturers had validated using E10 or lower blends.

 

[DBMaster]

I think SUVs give people the feel of being "ruggedized" in some way. You may never need to haul all that stuff, need all the ground clearance, or ever go off-road. But, the feeling that you "could" seems to be appealing. I personally want a car that handles well, is easy to park, and doesn't use much fuel doing it. It needs to be quick, but fast isn't necessary since few around here seem to ever step on the gas. I think they enjoy sitting through three minute traffic lights multiple times. (Gives you more time to catch up on that texting, which is not illegal while driving in this state.)

But, to get back on topic, I agree with Daniel regarding the reason many owner's manuals state that E10 is the ethanol limit.

 

[danielLD]

Originally Posted By: AP9
Originally Posted By: danielLD
Originally Posted By: JustinH
Hyundai says don't use anything over e10 in their vehicles.

It will be interesting to see how many people have problems with e15.

I drove up to DFW last weekend and paid $2.02 for a gallon of 87 at a truck stop along the way e10.

I would say people don't care, judging by the full size SUV's and pickups all over the place.


Forgot to add, no one will have issues with E15. any car since 2001 according to the EPA can run E15, no problem.

I think it's really more like 1998.



Ah, so nice to know that I'm a "no one"

I'd like to see a full DVP&R from all the retesting the EPA has conducted on elastomer sealing compatibility testing, polyamide tubing aged swell testing, and various other validation tests that OEM component manufacturers had validated using E10 or lower blends.


I have a friend with a 1999 5.0L explorer using Thorntons E15(I hate Thorntons) and he has had no issue, been using it for about a year now.
Gasoline is more corrosive than ethanol, but hey, the oil industry only stands to lose billions just on E15, I'm sure they have some change for undermining ethanol.

You'd be fine on E15, there's very little difference between E10, which has been around for a long time now.

ohhhh Just saw the impala, hmmmm, you should still be fine.

 

[edhackett]

Originally Posted By: danielLD

Gasoline is more corrosive than ethanol,


You keep saying this. The entire body of peer reviewed, published science on the corrosive properties of ethanol blended fuels and the fuel handling industry say that you are wrong. Please point to some science that supports your view, and I'll gladly read it.

Ed

 

[danielLD]

Originally Posted By: edhackett
Originally Posted By: danielLD

Gasoline is more corrosive than ethanol,


You keep saying this. The entire body of peer reviewed, published science on the corrosive properties of ethanol blended fuels and the fuel handling industry say that you are wrong. Please point to some science that supports your view, and I'll gladly read it.

Ed


I'll try and post a UOA, currently don't have my laptop. ah, science one day says this and the next says the opposite.

 

[edhackett]

Originally Posted By: danielLD
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Originally Posted By: danielLD

Gasoline is more corrosive than ethanol,


You keep saying this. The entire body of peer reviewed, published science on the corrosive properties of ethanol blended fuels and the fuel handling industry say that you are wrong. Please point to some science that supports your view, and I'll gladly read it.

Ed


I'll try and post a UOA, currently don't have my laptop. ah, science one day says this and the next says the opposite.


Oh, you have a UOA. That's different! Don't bother posting it here. Nobody on this board is capable of understanding it.

You should send it directly to the ethanol producers, refineries, and those manufacturing tanks and piping for the industry. The refineries will be thrilled that they have been wrong all these years and they can send ethanol blends though the current pipe infrastructure. The savings from not having to transport the ethanol by truck and train to be mixed at the point of delivery will be enormous. The manufactures will be thrilled to find that their customers have not been experiencing stress corrosion cracking in tanks and piping handling 20% or more ethanol due to the excess dissolved oxygen carried in the ethanol. The savings in materials, engineering, and treatment will again, be enormous. You will be a very rich man. You have a UOA.

Ed