First Hand Experience with LSPI Destroying Engine?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
I think modern oils are reformulating to moving away from Moly and using perhaps something else unidentified because 2000+ Ca and Moly in the same formula seems to make an oil especially LPSI prone.


We should get an Amsoil site sponsor to tell us what changes they made because they guarantee 100% protection from LSPI in their new formula that just got release in September.

I would be interested to know.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
LSPI is abbreviated for _______________.
confused2.gif



Low
Speed
Pre
Ignition
 
Originally Posted By: HemiHawk
I know that Hyundai changed something from the first Veloster turbos (2013) sometime around 2014-2014.5 model years. They changed some ECU tuning and spark plugs. I recently had to buy spark plugs for a 2015 Veloster turbo and went crazy trying to find out why different spark plugs were chosen for which years. I'm pretty sure after market tuners even noticed differences in the ECU tuning for that car (I think thats mentioned in one of the threads up above).

I know someone with a first year veloster turbo, who has been through 2 turbos and at one point the car was running horribly. turned out it somehow ate a spark plug. Not sure if related, or just first year issues.

So that kind of tells me it has quite a bit to do with engine tuning. As I've said before, My GTI (with DSG trans) will bog/lug the engine around in normal driving. Which I know isn't great for a turbo engine.


When I would go to the dealer with my 2006 Santa Fe they would always want the VIN# to make sure that I got the right revision part to fit my vehicle because some would be equipped with slightly different alternators etc. I think they make minor changes here/there but it was always a PITA to get parts looked up.
 
Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
I think modern oils are reformulating to moving away from Moly and using perhaps something else unidentified because 2000+ Ca and Moly in the same formula seems to make an oil especially LPSI prone.


Moly and Magnesium are considered LSPI suppressors in most papers i've read. Ca and Sodium have been the main culprits and using the reformulated QSUD VOA posted yesterday (see below), i'd say at least SOPUS is on-board.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4546459/
 
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
I think modern oils are reformulating to moving away from Moly and using perhaps something else unidentified because 2000+ Ca and Moly in the same formula seems to make an oil especially LPSI prone.


Moly and Magnesium are considered LSPI suppressors in most papers i've read. Ca and Sodium have been the main culprits and using the reformulated QSUD VOA posted yesterday (see below), i'd say at least SOPUS is on-board.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4546459/


I guess I'm remember wrong, but I thought it was the combination of Moly and Ca that was exacerbating the problem?
 
I've seen a few threads on Mustang6G talking about LSPI maybe the root cause of some bone stock Ecoboost 2015 Mustangs blowing up.

Seems manufacturers should be able to tune the ECU to account for low RPM lugging to minimize LSPI. There will always be someone who will lug the engine and try to "floor it" without down shifting.
 
Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
I think modern oils are reformulating to moving away from Moly and using perhaps something else unidentified because 2000+ Ca and Moly in the same formula seems to make an oil especially LPSI prone.


Moly and Magnesium are considered LSPI suppressors in most papers i've read. Ca and Sodium have been the main culprits and using the reformulated QSUD VOA posted yesterday (see below), i'd say at least SOPUS is on-board.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4546459/


I guess I'm remember wrong, but I thought it was the combination of Moly and Ca that was exacerbating the problem?

In the studies I have seen, Moly and ZDP are suppressants. Magnesium is neutral. Calcium, particularly approaching and exceeding 1500 ppm, is a major contributor, and sodium, IN CONJUNCTION with calcium, is an accelerant of calcium's contribution.
Some minor contributors, on the oil side, are basestocks, Groups I,II,V,III, and IV are best to worst. Viscosity is a minor contributor, in that thicker is slightly better. Gasoline "freshness" maybe an issue. There appears to be some point at which increasing the octane is bad, but this number appears to be somewhat engine specific.
There appears to be enough data so far, to point to calcium as being bad, to the point that manufacturers are removing it from formulation.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I've seen a few threads on Mustang6G talking about LSPI maybe the root cause of some bone stock Ecoboost 2015 Mustangs blowing up.

Seems manufacturers should be able to tune the ECU to account for low RPM lugging to minimize LSPI. There will always be someone who will lug the engine and try to "floor it" without down shifting.


That is the natural behavior of the CVT/engine combo in my FXT in auto mode, will often see the boost rise without much change in RPMs when climbing hills starting from a low speed and similar situations. I'd assume this is an effort to raise MPG?
I generally use the downshift paddle to force the RPMs up at such times, but sometimes I'm not paying close enough attention or the paddle is difficult to reach at that moment (even though I've put extenders on them). I find going into "manual" mode with full paddle control is too slow for normal driving, but I do find it to be very useful when driving in difficult winter conditions...engine braking down steep, untreated hills makes me feel much safer at those times.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Seems manufacturers should be able to tune the ECU to account for low RPM lugging to minimize LSPI. There will always be someone who will lug the engine and try to "floor it" without down shifting.


The vast majority of cars sold today are automatic transmissions. Wouldn't any of these cars when lugging in slow speed, immediately shift down to 1st or 2nd gear upon application of WOT?

In the studies I have seen, Moly and ZDP are suppressants. Magnesium is neutral. Calcium, particularly approaching and exceeding 1500 ppm, is a major contributor, and sodium, IN CONJUNCTION with calcium, is an accelerant of calcium's contribution.

Hence, that would make the Valvoline conventional and synpower sodium oils not very good when it comes to LSPI.
 
We had a 2013 F-150 5.0 with the Ford 6-speed auto. The two 2.7 Ecoboost trucks we have have the same basic transmission. The shifting program on the 2.7 truck, has you in a higher gear significantly sooner, and it will hold that gear significantly longer.
 
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Seems manufacturers should be able to tune the ECU to account for low RPM lugging to minimize LSPI. There will always be someone who will lug the engine and try to "floor it" without down shifting.


The vast majority of cars sold today are automatic transmissions. Wouldn't any of these cars when lugging in slow speed, immediately shift down to 1st or 2nd gear upon application of WOT?

In the studies I have seen, Moly and ZDP are suppressants. Magnesium is neutral. Calcium, particularly approaching and exceeding 1500 ppm, is a major contributor, and sodium, IN CONJUNCTION with calcium, is an accelerant of calcium's contribution.


Hence, that would make the Valvoline conventional and synpower sodium oils not very good when it comes to LSPI.

Hence, you're probably correct
smile.gif
 
Last edited:
Valvoline was one of the first brands to reach store shelves with Dexos1 Gen2 approval. So they're doing something different(right). What that is? I couldn't tell you.
 
Interestingly then, if Moly and ZDDP are suppressors, makes a case for using an additive like Mos2 or a boutique oil like RL which has a ton of moly in it.

As far as modded engines blowing up, I can't see that as being a data point. Maybe it suggests these engine are already tuned to a fine pin point and anymore tuning kills it.
 
Last edited:
I have read reports of owners having problems with the Kia Sportage SX. These have a 2.0 liter TGDI engine. The reports involved cracked spark plugs and I could sense that LSPI was the cause. One forum discovered that running premium gasoline averted the problem.
 
Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
Interestingly then, if Moly and ZDDP are suppressors, makes a case for using an additive like Mos2 or a boutique oil like RL which has a ton of moly in it.

As far as modded engines blowing up, I can't see that as being a data point. Maybe it suggests these engine are already tuned to a fine pin point and anymore tuning kills it.


That's an interesting thought. Just not sure how necessary it may be now with Dex1Gen2 in stores. But the idea is intriguing.



Originally Posted By: PimTac
I have read reports of owners having problems with the Kia Sportage SX. These have a 2.0 liter TGDI engine. The reports involved cracked spark plugs and I could sense that LSPI was the cause. One forum discovered that running premium gasoline averted the problem.


I ran 87 octane 50% of the time during the Santa Fe 2.0T's (same basic engine as the Sportage SX) first 20K miles but have since settled on 93 exclusively after seeing how fouled my spark plugs were during the first change at 40K.
 
Maybe I'm unreasonable in my belief that, especially in an automatic transmission, my motor shouldn't grenade irrespective of the gear or driving style.
 
High compression plus lugging the engine equals bad things. IMO instead of running the mix rich, they should be using the full electronic control of the throttle and transmission to downshift, THEN open the throttle. Seems simple to me but I guess that's not the best path to fuel economy or something.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

D
A question that gets a lot of options from the new guy about oil
Replies
6
Views
1K
Douglasdzaster
W
Mazda 2.5T Oil Selection
Replies
2
Views
447
drtyler
zrxkawboy
my experience with 2 HM oils
Replies
19
Views
2K
wlk
Au{R}oN
Oil Spec that replace Ford WSS-M2C913-D, if exists
Replies
17
Views
2K
ctechbob
L
New Tacoma V6 Break-in and LSPI
6 7 8
Replies
159
Views
9K
Pablo
Back
Top