Entry-Level to Mid-Range AR-15s

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Well, I was thinking about a lightweight .308 carbine, as I’d mentioned in the other thread, but I got to thinking...I already have a .30-cal rifle (Mini-30), and I could have a pretty nice AR-15 (I don’t have a 5.56 rifle at all) with a good optic for what a DPMS or S&W AR-10 would cost for just the rifle alone.

I do want a decent base rifle that will be a good platform for upgrades. I’ve already pretty much accepted the fact that, with something like a Smith & Wesson M&P 15, I’m going to want to replace the grip, handguard, maybe the stock, probably the trigger, etc.

The M&P 15 does seem like a lot for the $$$, which I like. I also like the fact that it is a Smith & Wesson. I feel like, being a good-sized, well-known company, I wouldn’t have to worry about them standing behind the rifle if I ever had any problems. There are also a ton of them out there...I think I read somewhere that it was the most-bought centerfire in America last year.

Also, I believe everything on it is non-proprietary (something else I worried a little bit about with an AR-10...since they have never been adopted as a service rifle, they have a lot of proprietary parts).

Anyway, I’d still like to have a .308 carbine eventually, but I think I’m leaning more towards an AR-15 right now, since I don’t have one.

Another model I hear a lot about is the Colt 6920. It is $200-250 more than the S&W. Do you really get more features & quality for the extra dough, or are you just paying for the Colt name?

Let’s keep the politics out of this, so it doesn’t get shut down.
 
This place has absolutely amazing deals from time to time:

https://www.cdnnsports.com/firearms.html


Originally Posted By: john_pifer
I’m going to want to replace the grip, hand-guard, maybe the stock, probably the trigger, etc.
...... I wouldn’t have to worry about them standing behind the rifle if I ever had any problems.


Instead of having lots of spare parts left over that nobody wants, you should just BUILD what you want from the beginning. These are NOT complicated or complex machines.

Problems? With an AR-15? I haven't heard of any. The platform is a DOG EAT DOG industry - no one can afford to build problematic stuff, or the internet will know about it in hours.

Here is a NAME BRAND, LIFETIME warranty, nicely featured AR-15 for $439
https://www.cdnnsports.com/delton-ar15-echo-316-556-nato-b5-system.html#.WdzZ1ltSxdg
 
My stepson had the Colt with a Nikon Monarch 3 2.5-10x42 BDC that would never make groups tighter than 2.5"@100 yards even from a sled, regardless who was shooting. He sold that rifle and bought a Savage 22-250 and used that same scope, and can make 1" 5 shot groups at 150 yards. I like the aftermarket for AR15s, but if I was looking for a SHTF rifle, I'd get an AK built around the Sharps Bros. milled receiver; there have been a couple reviews where this receiver takes the AK to MOA accuracy at 100 yards, and maintains the legendary reliability of the AK, with the bonus of cheap, accurate, steel-cased ammo.

If I was going to buy an AR it would either be .308 or .458 SOCOM since I like 1-shot kills regardless of the target.
 
I've owned and built ARs ranging from low spec to top spec and frankly what it always boils down to me is the barrel. The platform is like legos and parts just fit together with relative ease and predictability. Stocks, grips, rails, optics and sights are all modular and you can swap things around to your heart's content.

But if you're an accuracy snob, then buy or build one with a good barrel. I don't run my guns hard so I go with stainless, 1:7 or 1:8 twist, Wylde chamber and a heavy profile. If you care about the gas impulse then go with a 18 or 20" barrel with a rifle length gas system, and a rifle length buffer with standard spring and buffer weight. She'll shoot soft and eject brass reliably to around 4 o clock.

I've built ARs out of clearance discount blem parts, but put on a good barrel, and still got sub MOA performance out of a gun that cosmetically looks no different than a $1500 Daniel Defense rifle.

Part of this is the forging. There are only so many producers in the industry who forge the upper and lower receivers. Mil spec is mil spec is mil spec!


*Edit -- As far as buying one off the shelf.. you can't go wrong with an M&P15 or a Savage MSR.. but if you're an accuracy snob then just a warning that they don't put top shelf barrels on mass production rifles.
 
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Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Another model I hear a lot about is the Colt 6920. It is $200-250 more than the S&W. Do you really get more features & quality for the extra dough, or are you just paying for the Colt name?


I have both the 6920, and the 6940 Monolith. To be honest, I don't see any better performance from the 6920, than I do from any of my other AR-15's from Bushmaster, DPMS, or Rock River Arms. All have run 100% for me. And it's pretty hard to improve on that. I can see the added price on the 6940 due to the one piece Monolithic upper costing more to produce.

But the 6920 is no different from any other Delta Ring, direct impingement AR-15 currently being manufactured out there. As far as arguing the quality of parts. I've mentioned in other threads, I've seem CMT bolts in Stag Arms guns, as well as Colt's. So it all comes back to a relatively few parts manufacturers supplying the entire AR-15 industry. I think if the Colt brand had any advantage in the marketplace, it would be in both resale ease and value. Many people just feel more comfortable about buying them over other brands.

 
There is a difference in the quality of metals used in the bolts and barrels which could be important depending on the use of the rifle[Machine gun vs bolt action steel alloy] Most of the upper and lower forgings as well as bolt assemblies are made from a hand full of companies. Why not spend extra now and build one ! Why buy parts you will be changing out.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
.....Why buy parts you will be changing out.


While I, like many shooters, carry a sufficient amount of spare parts for my AR's. Including complete replacement bolt carrier groups. In owning and shooting over a dozen AR-15, I have never been forced to change out a part from breakage. In thousands of rounds of factory ammunition, as well as handloads. I think all of this talk about replacing parts on AR-15 rifles is way overblown. Think about it. There is no other weapon that people seem to carry more parts for than the AR-15 platform.

Granted most of them can be replaced in minutes, without any special tools, right at the shooting bench. So why not carry extra firing pins, extractors, ect.? But that in itself doesn't mean they are any more prone to breakage than any other rifle. I'm willing to bet that 90% or more of AR-15 owners and shooters have never replaced anything on their rifles, due to parts failure or breakage.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: CT8
.....Why buy parts you will be changing out.


While I, like many shooters, carry a sufficient amount of spare parts for my AR's. Including complete replacement bolt carrier groups. In owning and shooting over a dozen AR-15, I have never been forced to change out a part from breakage. In thousands of rounds of factory ammunition, as well as handloads. I think all of this talk about replacing parts on AR-15 rifles is way overblown. Think about it. There is no other weapon that people seem to carry more parts for than the AR-15 platform.

Granted most of them can be replaced in minutes, without any special tools, right at the shooting bench. So why not carry extra firing pins, extractors, ect.? But that in itself doesn't mean they are any more prone to breakage than any other rifle. I'm willing to bet that 90% or more of AR-15 owners and shooters have never replaced anything on their rifles, due to parts failure or breakage.


Ditto. I remember in the early days of the AR boom when everyone was buying the little spare parts kits that store inside the pistol grip. I wonder how many of those were eventually ditched to the parts bin or the owners forgot the kit is still inside the grip.

Back when ammo was cheap, I was in the habit of breaking in each new AR build by lubing it up really well and then shooting 1000 rounds through it before cleaning. Never had any breakages or failures. And on every rifle I did this on, the end result was a glass-like action because all that lube and carbon ends up polishing the internals.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
In owning and shooting over a dozen AR-15, I have never been forced to change out a part from breakage. In thousands of rounds of factory ammunition, as well as handloads. I think all of this talk about replacing parts on AR-15 rifles is way overblown......I'm willing to bet that 90% or more of AR-15 owners and shooters have never replaced anything on their rifles, due to parts failure or breakage.


CORRECT.

Only professionals (mercenaries?) that shoot 100,000 rounds per year are the only ones breaking ANYTHING.
 
i have several 100's of thousands of rounds down my bushamster's and not a single issue. clean em, oil em, load em, shoot am.
that simple.
 
Originally Posted By: Killer223
i have several 100's of thousands of rounds down my bushamster's and not a single issue. clean em, oil em, load em, shoot am.
that simple.


That's quite a claim. Your barrel would be burned out by now if you had that many rounds through it..
 
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Originally Posted By: Killer223
i have several 100's of thousands of rounds down my bushamster's and not a single issue. clean em, oil em, load em, shoot am.
that simple.


That's quite a claim. Your barrel would be burned out by now if you had that many rounds through it..


I think he means through multiple Bushmasters. Personally I wouldn't buy any Bushy made since it became part of the Freedom Group. Instead I would probably buy a Windham Weaponry....you know...the old Bushmaster.
 
I've had some S&W AR's and some Colts. The Colts were older ones and I found them very satisfying (SP1 and a early blue box R6530 Sporter Lightweight (carbine)). I am familiar with but don't/haven't owned any newer ones; my shooting buddies who know them better do like them quite a bit.

I have/had the base model S&W Sport and also the Magpul spec. I really like Colt and S&W; you would enjoy either. If you can find a used 1st gen. Sport S&W with the 5R barrel, it's a heck of a nice feature on such an economical gun. I only got rid of it to upgrade to the lighter profile 5R barrel on the Magpul Spec model.
 
Originally Posted By: Killer223
i have several 100's of thousands of rounds down my bushamster's and not a single issue. clean em, oil em, load em, shoot am.
that simple.


Several hundreds of thousands of rounds, and no problems?

High round count rifles need extractors, bolts, buffer springs, hammer/trigger springs, ejector springs, firing pins, etc, to keep going.

The AR bolt itself on a carbine rifle is only rated for 6000 to 10,000 rounds before it cracks and needs replaced. Barrels are shot at 20K rounds and need replaced.
 
Originally Posted By: Killer223
i have several 100's of thousands of rounds down my bushamster's and not a single issue. clean em, oil em, load em, shoot am.
that simple.


This is a great exaggeration if not an outright lie. I see no purpose in posting such a claim. Even at .30 cents/round, the cost alone would be prohibitive.

There is not one AR ever made that could fire anywhere near that amount of rounds without breaking and needing a total rebuild. This is true even if a dozen rifles we shot in rotation.
 
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