Need a good battery charger

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Originally Posted By: Sierra048
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Forgot about the schumacher SP3 -I have these sitting on quad batteries and they work well especially for the money.

They don't have a large top end - I think 60 amp is where they claim its capability to maintain stops, but for small batts they have worked well for years.



UD


Can you help me understand your 60 amp max statement? If a charger, let's say, recharges at a 2A, 6A, and 10A rate (what is the benefit of having 3 different charge rates?), how does the 60A max capability come into play. I truly don't know. Thanks.


Certainly - you asked two question though.

Just about every smart charger/ maintainer has a published amp range they recommend the unit for.

4-40 amps etc. The big ones don't do so well down low and vice versa - if you look at the specs carefully you will find this.

I remember the Schumacher as being a tiny bit out of spec for the auto battery it was clamped to for years in a storage unit I had. - but it did just fine.

The optimate 6 is so good partially because it has an incredible wide range of batteries it can charge Safely and maintain correctly with decent charging power. Ripple is another worthwhile measurement to look at.

My optimates do a better job than my Cteks - which work pretty well.

The benefit of multiple charge rates are the ability to taper the charge, and or trickle the charge if the program calls for it and
or to pull back voltage because of heat, the better units at least have ambient measuring on the body.


UD
 
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Additionally more charge rates and brains widen the scope of the battery sizes a charger can address.

10 amps or even 5 may be more than optimum for a small battery to accept shortening its life,
If the charger can step down to one or 2 amps it can effectively and safely cover that size.

An old analog charger that simply sends out a constant 15-20 amps will cook a small battery

Hook that same battery up to a (true) smart charger and it can sense the " depth of the well" so to speak and fill it up without overcharging.

UD
 
Well, I can tell you after all your help and responses, reading articles and watching Youtube videos, I never paid much attention to the science involved with battery charging. And I'm no youngster, been around for quite awhile. Appreciate all the input. Due to an unexpected vet bill yesterday, I'll have to postpone my purchase for a month or so. We spent more on our dog yesterday, out of pocket, than we've spent on ourselves in the last five years.
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I have looked at all of your suggestions and links and have earmarked a few for my final decision. I do have a $50 Home Depot gift card. I haven't checked them out yet to see if they have anything worth considering. Please keep adding input that might be helpful. Thanks again to everyone.
 
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Originally Posted By: 46Harry
I second the Pro Logix battery maintainer. I've been using one for a couple of years and I'm really happy with it.

Another vote for ProLogix. I have a few chargers in the garage, including Noco and BatteryMinder, and more often than not, I reach for my ProLogix 2320.

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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: 46Harry
I second the Pro Logix battery maintainer. I've been using one for a couple of years and I'm really happy with it.

Another vote for ProLogix. I have a few chargers in the garage, including Noco and BatteryMinder, and more often than not, I reach for my ProLogix 2320.

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QP, this charger has definitely made it to my final list for consideration.
 
I just don't know enough about it to put one on my list. I can't find a manual for the prologix on line,

Quattro your model looks to be the all rounder of the group - in particular Im looking for -

Temp sensor - how does it sense battery temps?

Range - AH sizing recommendations With 20 amps Im imagining it would be good for at least 400 AH but how small a battery will it go down to ?

Recovery voltage - how low a voltage can it handle in a recovery before it flags the batt as no good?

Ripple measurement - how clean is its current?


Thanks

UD
 
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Thanks it helps a bit. I couldn't find the manual.

I saw temp compensation on the web page, It doesn't mention the temp sensor itself - With my 25A amp Ctek the temp sensor is attached to the positive clamp.
With my optimates and smaller CTEKS its an ambient sensor in the body and the unit is small enough to set on top of most auto batteries.

Im guessing its ambient as well in this unit?

They dont mention an AH range rather unusual for smart chargers. Optimate 6 is 4-240AH

Lowest recovery voltage is 1V with a manual override (Optimate is .5V and automatic no button push necessary)

Cant find ripple but thats not unusual.

Seems hard to determine which phase it might be in at any given time prior to lighting the complete light, but the same could be said of the optimate until you use it a couple of times then it becomes apparent.

Although seemingly not as fully featured as some units Im inclined to try it based on feedback here.
As an owner of a boat shop you just can't have too many charger/ maintainers.

UD

Sep note: you modded your post and added more information to it - thanks- however I dont see that it was modded like everytime I do so.
Do you have special powers privileges here?
 
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Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Im guessing its ambient as well in this unit?

That would be my guess since I don't see any sensor near the positive clamp.

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They dont mention an AH range rather unusual for smart chargers. Optimate 6 is 4-240AH

Wouldn't that depend on battery chemistry? There is probably a formula out there somewhere to calculate it...

Quote:
Sep note: you modded your post and added more information to it - thanks- however I dont see that it was modded like everytime I do so.
Do you have special powers privileges here?

Just uncheck the "Mark as Edited?" option below your post, when you are in edit mode.
 
Makes sense typically an ambient bumps voltage at low Temp but doesn't sense a battery overcharge condition as its usually on the floor.

Im sure it does depend on battery chems,, if you look at say CTEKS range of chargers they spec a range each is good for- same with the Optimates.
Im little leery of smart chargers that dont front size a range - A 2.0 AMP charger isn't really going to be able to fill and equalize a 400AH bank

I really like auto sensing units that detect the size depth of the well and ramp up or down the amps themselves rather than me setting a fixed amp chart.



Ahh interesting, never noticed that but it was in front of my face forever

UD
 
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I got the top of the line Harbor Freight tender. Battery is coming up on six years and seems to degrade by about 10 CCA per year. Should get another year or even two out of it. Didn't start until the car was a couple of years old, either.
 
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Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Im sure it does depend on battery chems,, if you look at say CTEKS range of chargers they spec a range each is good for- same with the Optimates.
Im little leery of smart chargers that dont front size a range - A 2.0 AMP charger isn't really going to be able to fill and equalize a 400AH bank

Agreed.

Strangely enough, my BatteryMinder 2012 does not give a range of battery capacities either.

In general though, on the low side (of capacity), you probably don't want to push more than 0.2C into a lead-acid battery to help prolong its life, so if 2A is the charger's lowest charging current, that would mean 10 AH would be the smallest battery that you could use it on. And I'm talking about bulk charging here. Top off is different since it then uses constant voltage instead of constant current. And possibly AGM cells can tolerate more than 0.2C charging rate without any ill effects.

On the high side, I've seen some charger manufacturers (such as my Noco) give max supported capacities based on max current, 16 hours of charging time, and 50% depletion rate. So, for example, if a charger can charge at 20 Amps, it needs to be able to fully charge a 50% depleted battery in 16 hours, so the max supported battery capacity would be 640 AH (20 x 16 / 50%). Not saying I agree with this necessarily. It's just one approach. I'm sure other manufacturers have their own formulas/assumptions.
 
A few dont publish a range.

Yeah charge tables are always interesting to see how each chooses to do it and see where they set the min and max for each unit. (when they do)

For the bulk of my use (motorcycle to a single 8D) - I tend to prefer the smaller 5-10A really smart units that need no button pressing and auto chemistry and size detect.
Clamp and go, when you start needing to push buttons somebody that doesn't know can mess it up pretty easy. (I typically do but an employee may not)

Bigger than 10A if that unit doesn't accurately auto detect whats going on you can fry batteries really quick.

In general I prefer a moderate to slower safer charge to a faster charge wherever I can with the caveat that I like to be able to get either the bank or battery to float in 10-12 hours.

If its fallen below that it likely needs a reconditioning cycle out of the vehicle where you can zap each battery with etc right voltage to desulphate it

I only use my bigger amp units (10+) for "bank" charging Rv's where quad group 27 or more, or dual 8D' starting batts are used - where an intgrated temp sensor at or near the charging point is absolutely required.

Chargers are like wenches or any other tool in my mind , you usually need a range of them, but a few to one right one can cover a wide variety of needs.

Im always watching charger threads like a hawk hoping to discover something new.

UD
 
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Im always watching charger threads like a hawk hoping to discover something new.

Yeah, no kidding. That's how I ended up with three, when all I really need is one.

Almost as bad as my flashlight collecting... I see people rave about a new one online, and I want it.
 
Many AGMs will be tickled to death if deeply cycled and then slow charged.

Seek at least 20 amps per 100Ah of capacity on lesser$ AGMS and 30 or higher on better AGMS when drained to the 50% range./

While chargers for garages only really need to get the battery charged enough to start a vehicle, almost any charger can do this, but Ideal battery longevity is by getting the battery to full keeping it full, and cool.

With Automatic charging sources, well most, when they first flash the green light full charge indicator, are likley only 92 to 95% charged, and getting from 95% charged to 100% charged is likely to take another 2 hours, at 14.5ish volts, and 12+ hours at 13.6v, and 24+ hours at 13.2v, and that is on a still healthy battery. An abused/capacity compromised one will take much longer and perhaps higher voltages.

A hydrometer will prove that most automatic chargers will stop bulk/ absorption charging wel lbefore the battery is full. If left on long enough on float then it might, or might not ever attain maximum specific gravity.

An Ammeter is the next best tool for determining full charge, and is a requirememtn on an AGM. When the battery can only accept 0.5% of its capacity, 0.5 amp per 100Ah of capacity, or less, when held at ABSORPTION voltage( mid 14's) only then can it be considered fully charged.

This does not work at float voltage, and flooded/wet batteries are in the 1 to 3% of capacity range.

I regularly deeply cycle lead acid batteries. I got so sick of automatic chargers stopping absorption prematurely, I now use an Adjustable voltage powersupply. Also an Ammeter inline, and I hold 14.7v until amps taper to 0.45a or less on my Northstar 90AH AGM battery, and have over 700 deep cycles on it , many to well below 50% state of charge on it, and it will turn 4 years old Next month.

The time the battery needs to be held at absorption voltage changes, and can be anywhere from 3.5 to 12 hours. Temperature, initial charge rate, and how many cycles have accumulated since the last true full charge are the big variables which change the absorption time required.

Many automatic chargers simply use an egg timer algorithm basically giving 2 hours or so after it gets the battery to the mid 14 volt range. If the charger uses amperage as an absorption termination, which very few do, then it should also know the capacity of the battery it is trying to recharge. Such chargers are usually in the 500+ dollar range

But good enough for the average joe and Ideal for the specific battery being charged, are pretty far apart.

No Automatic charger will have an ideal algorithm for any specific battery. They are guessing on an acceptable compromise and decide to cover the weaknesses with extra special marketing, and depend on ignorance of the consumer.

As far a low and slow recharging always being best, well, even when I was deep cycling flooded marine/deepcycle group27/31 batteries, they were getting amperages into the 0.45C range from my alternator, and I was still getting 500 deep cycles from them. The low and slow trickle charge mentality annoys me. Batteries can take much higher amperage than most suppose, and when a person jumpstarts a vehicle the alternator will likely be feeding the battery 50+ amps for close to an hour, and the battery will still be very far from fully charged and should be put on a charging source until full, or close to it, as living in the 50% charged range will kill a battery quickly.

I've no recommendations on any specific charger product, only a recommendation to be highly suspicious of that green 'full charge' indicator. It lies. An OTC4619 will prove it, especially on an abused or deeply discharged battery.

I would recommend those using an automatic charging source, after it declares all is well and fully charged, to unhook charger from battery, unplug it from wall, and load the battery with an old headlight or two, 7+ amps until battery voltage falls to the 12.6v or less range, then restart charger. Lather rinse repeat. Each repeat should get the battery closer to a true full, but perhaps not. This is more important on older batteries or ones that have spent a lot of time well below 80% charged.
 
Fast charging is situational for me- 100 miles off shoring running radar sounders maps cooler and stereos I want to slam as many amps in as I can get as soon as I start the engine.

Plugging a car bike or mower in at home providing I didnt wait till the last minute there is no need to slam amps in at home and heat everything up.

2 things wear batteries out he most - depth of discharge - and heat you build up when you charge it.

The faster you charge the more you heat the battery up - thats an unavoidable tradeoff. Some heats ok too much and you fry -

This is why the better large chargers have a temp compensator on the clamp or as a separate sender -
If you have a big charger (>20amp) without a dedicated (not ambient) temp sensor its likely a poser.

Some of the smaller stuff like Optimates dont use an "egg timer" and do use absorption techniques to determine the size of the Reservoir its filling and are reasonably priced.

The 500 and up stuff Ive used one can look at the delta volt sportsman and eagle line of product- expensive and worth it. as is the charger in my outback Inverter.

Ill grab a truly smart 10 or less amp charger vs my big 25-80 amp big ones at home nearly every time.


UD
 
Heres a pict of the three units I use the most often

The Schumacher for smaller batts goes from 1 to about 60 AH - sitting on the quads.

The CTEK 7002 good for 14-225 AH - charging 2 group 27's on the toy hauler

The optimate 6 Good for 4-240AH - sitting on the spare car

UD

 
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