As for the new Goldwing: If I wanted a big, heavy, full dress touring bike, this would be in the running. I'd be most interested to know if it has lost any weight.
All New New Honda Goldwing for 2018
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Originally Posted By: Linctex
Yes, lots of scientific studies on this in aviation.
The Human mind does better when it sees a "picture" (analog)
...than it does when it sees a "number" -
because you waste time thinking whether the number is a good number or not. (too high, too low)
Hmmm...
'Do you know how fast you were going?'
'No officer, my speedometer is digital and the three digits confused my brain'
'Ah, totally understandable. That's why the readout on my lidar gun is analog....see?'
'Yeah....these guys understand science.'
'I won't give you a ticket, just try to keep it down.'
Somehow I don't envision a roadside scenario like that one ever going down.
But in all seriousness, whether digital or analog is better I think really depends on what the gauge is supposed to be measuring.
If it's something where the exact value of the measured quantity is less important than where the quantity is in relation to an acceptable range, or where rate of change is important, analog is better. Example: tachometer or fuel level gauge. You don't care what the exact RPM or fuel quantity is, you care about where your RPM's are at in relation to redline or how fast/slow the revs are rising, or where your fuel level is in relation to the Empty or Full marks. Analog is better in this case - you instantly see the measured quantity relative to important reference points.
On the other hand, for something like speed (for roadgoing vehicles), digital works better because you see at a glance what your exact speed is. Because speed limits and tickets and points.
With more and more new vehicles coming with full-TFT instrument panels, though, they could theoretically give the operator the ability to customize the gauges to whatever layout they prefer.
Yes, lots of scientific studies on this in aviation.
The Human mind does better when it sees a "picture" (analog)
...than it does when it sees a "number" -
because you waste time thinking whether the number is a good number or not. (too high, too low)
Hmmm...
'Do you know how fast you were going?'
'No officer, my speedometer is digital and the three digits confused my brain'
'Ah, totally understandable. That's why the readout on my lidar gun is analog....see?'
'Yeah....these guys understand science.'
'I won't give you a ticket, just try to keep it down.'
Somehow I don't envision a roadside scenario like that one ever going down.
But in all seriousness, whether digital or analog is better I think really depends on what the gauge is supposed to be measuring.
If it's something where the exact value of the measured quantity is less important than where the quantity is in relation to an acceptable range, or where rate of change is important, analog is better. Example: tachometer or fuel level gauge. You don't care what the exact RPM or fuel quantity is, you care about where your RPM's are at in relation to redline or how fast/slow the revs are rising, or where your fuel level is in relation to the Empty or Full marks. Analog is better in this case - you instantly see the measured quantity relative to important reference points.
On the other hand, for something like speed (for roadgoing vehicles), digital works better because you see at a glance what your exact speed is. Because speed limits and tickets and points.
With more and more new vehicles coming with full-TFT instrument panels, though, they could theoretically give the operator the ability to customize the gauges to whatever layout they prefer.
My 05 Shadow (1100) has a five speed and cruises very nicely at 75-80 on the interstate and still gets 40+ mpg. Push is above 80, and it starts to suck it faster. Would it be nice to have a 6 speed ? Perhaps, but I've never lacked for passing power on the open road.
Nice to see the leaner look on the Wing - the recent generation had more clutter than my carport. If they lean it out like my 82 Gold Wing, then we'd be a talkin' !
Nice to see the leaner look on the Wing - the recent generation had more clutter than my carport. If they lean it out like my 82 Gold Wing, then we'd be a talkin' !
Gold Wing owners have been asking for a 6th gear since they still had 4 cylinders.
Honda ignores the requests.
The change to a true alternator with the 1800s no longer needed
the RPM to keep the battery and all the wiz-bang electrical stuff
happy.
Honda ignores the requests.
The change to a true alternator with the 1800s no longer needed
the RPM to keep the battery and all the wiz-bang electrical stuff
happy.
Suspect a DCT will be available and will be fairly high ratio of shipped/sold.
Pricing on this class of bike is 24ish thousand...
Pricing on this class of bike is 24ish thousand...
I liked the 5 speed transmissions in my old Goldwing and my 2 Electraglides. They pulled smoothly from about 45 to 50 mph without having to down shift. I do try to avoid interstate highways as much as possible. Back roads are much more scenic, relaxing and enjoyable to me rather than the frantic pace of interstates. My 2009 Superglide starts to lug at speeds under 55 mph in 6th gear. Sixth gear is nice at 70 mph and above for getting from point A to point B, but is otherwise a monotonous ride in my opinion.
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
...
There are a number of Goldwing owners who wish they had that 6th gear, for me an unacceptable compromise only having 5 speeds. One just needs to read the forums/ this is for people who cruise at GPS 80 MPH interstate speeds.
Those GW owners wish they had the extra gear and all will tell you in addition how MPG goes in the toilet at those speeds.
Click, just a tiny page of 6th gear talk out of thousands
Ok one more ...
Lets also keep in mind the GW exaggerates the speed the bike is going (like a lot of brands from Japan) and why important to use GPS speed.
The number of gears in the transmission, does not determine what the overall gear ratio (primary, transmission, final drive, tire diameter) is in a given bikes top gear. A bike with a three speed transmission could be designed with a taller overall gear ratio in it's top gear, than a "6-speed transmission". Of course that would make a for a very wide-ratio transmission.
We all know that, lets be real though. Less gears = cost savings and less satisfied customers. I knew I would get a response like this from someone. I had 2 - 5 speed bikes and its not enough for someone who rides primarily at GPS speeds of 80 MPH.
I had two criteria for a new bike, 6 speeds and ABS.
MANY people with a 5 speed bike will confirm this with you. Including countless Goldwing riders
5 speeds are cost saving measure OR its on a bike not designed for interstate cruising.
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
...
There are a number of Goldwing owners who wish they had that 6th gear, for me an unacceptable compromise only having 5 speeds. One just needs to read the forums/ this is for people who cruise at GPS 80 MPH interstate speeds.
Those GW owners wish they had the extra gear and all will tell you in addition how MPG goes in the toilet at those speeds.
Click, just a tiny page of 6th gear talk out of thousands
Ok one more ...
Lets also keep in mind the GW exaggerates the speed the bike is going (like a lot of brands from Japan) and why important to use GPS speed.
The number of gears in the transmission, does not determine what the overall gear ratio (primary, transmission, final drive, tire diameter) is in a given bikes top gear. A bike with a three speed transmission could be designed with a taller overall gear ratio in it's top gear, than a "6-speed transmission". Of course that would make a for a very wide-ratio transmission.
We all know that, lets be real though. Less gears = cost savings and less satisfied customers. I knew I would get a response like this from someone. I had 2 - 5 speed bikes and its not enough for someone who rides primarily at GPS speeds of 80 MPH.
I had two criteria for a new bike, 6 speeds and ABS.
MANY people with a 5 speed bike will confirm this with you. Including countless Goldwing riders
5 speeds are cost saving measure OR its on a bike not designed for interstate cruising.
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Yamaha listened to the demographic buying their FJR1300 and upped it to a 6-speed for model yr 2016. Honda needs to do same with the 'Wing if they haven't yet. Lot of FJR people also said it didn't need a 6-speed but not hearing many complain since Yamaha upgraded it.
Also, I agree about analog instruments. However on light aircraft such as piston singles and twins correct me if I'm wrong but the advent of the inclinometer chipsets like Bosch and possibly others have pioneered, it can be of benefit to have an screen type digital attitude indicator installed either as primary or backup to a vacuum driven one, yes? If my rusty memory of light aircraft avionics serves, I think a backup or standby attitude indicator used to only work up to a certain rpm threshold. Might have that wrong but remember something about if you fell back to the backup AI you needed to keep rpm's below a certain amount? I remember when we had the Cherokee 140/160 one evening wife and I were flying to a nearby field about 45 minutes direct, for evening meal (restaurant on the field). CAVU conditions and the return flight would be night VFR (again, CAVU day and same for evening forecast). About half way there enroute the attitude indicator went limp, yawing and settling to indicate a 45 deg climbing bank i.e. lost vacuum. No backup installed. Loneranger did a 180 and headed back to base, much to the wife's veiled disappointment. Dusk to dawn lights down below were just lighting up as we called approach advising back inbound for landing (class c). That was fun, ha. Granted a backup would still have seen the same "aeronautical decision" but would have had something to reference on in add'n to the turn & bank and rate of climb/descent and whatever else ... I forget the relationships between the six pack primary's on the panel .... been too long.
Also, I agree about analog instruments. However on light aircraft such as piston singles and twins correct me if I'm wrong but the advent of the inclinometer chipsets like Bosch and possibly others have pioneered, it can be of benefit to have an screen type digital attitude indicator installed either as primary or backup to a vacuum driven one, yes? If my rusty memory of light aircraft avionics serves, I think a backup or standby attitude indicator used to only work up to a certain rpm threshold. Might have that wrong but remember something about if you fell back to the backup AI you needed to keep rpm's below a certain amount? I remember when we had the Cherokee 140/160 one evening wife and I were flying to a nearby field about 45 minutes direct, for evening meal (restaurant on the field). CAVU conditions and the return flight would be night VFR (again, CAVU day and same for evening forecast). About half way there enroute the attitude indicator went limp, yawing and settling to indicate a 45 deg climbing bank i.e. lost vacuum. No backup installed. Loneranger did a 180 and headed back to base, much to the wife's veiled disappointment. Dusk to dawn lights down below were just lighting up as we called approach advising back inbound for landing (class c). That was fun, ha. Granted a backup would still have seen the same "aeronautical decision" but would have had something to reference on in add'n to the turn & bank and rate of climb/descent and whatever else ... I forget the relationships between the six pack primary's on the panel .... been too long.
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Yamaha listened to the demographic buying their FJR1300 and upped it to a 6-speed for model yr 2016. Honda needs to do same with the 'Wing if they haven't yet. Lot of FJR people also said it didn't need a 6-speed but not hearing many complain since Yamaha upgraded it.
...
I forgot about that, perfect example, rave reviews in the motorcycle press about the FJR 1300 with the 6th gear and I commented when it came out, I would now like to have a second bike in the garage and that is the one.
I say second, cause wife wouldnt let me get rid of the RK for a FJR.
)
Yamaha listened to the demographic buying their FJR1300 and upped it to a 6-speed for model yr 2016. Honda needs to do same with the 'Wing if they haven't yet. Lot of FJR people also said it didn't need a 6-speed but not hearing many complain since Yamaha upgraded it.
...
I forgot about that, perfect example, rave reviews in the motorcycle press about the FJR 1300 with the 6th gear and I commented when it came out, I would now like to have a second bike in the garage and that is the one.
I say second, cause wife wouldnt let me get rid of the RK for a FJR.
)Most all autos today have 6,8 or even 9 speed transmissions.
Most Gold Wing competitors have a 6th gear for highway loafing.
No room? Puleeeze. Honda is clever enough to figure a way around any
real problem there. A 6th gear doesn't need to be that heavy duty, so
they can be thinner than the lower gears.
My 2¢
Most Gold Wing competitors have a 6th gear for highway loafing.
No room? Puleeeze. Honda is clever enough to figure a way around any
real problem there. A 6th gear doesn't need to be that heavy duty, so
they can be thinner than the lower gears.
My 2¢
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
...
There are a number of Goldwing owners who wish they had that 6th gear, for me an unacceptable compromise only having 5 speeds. One just needs to read the forums/ this is for people who cruise at GPS 80 MPH interstate speeds.
Those GW owners wish they had the extra gear and all will tell you in addition how MPG goes in the toilet at those speeds.
Click, just a tiny page of 6th gear talk out of thousands
Ok one more ...
Lets also keep in mind the GW exaggerates the speed the bike is going (like a lot of brands from Japan) and why important to use GPS speed.
The number of gears in the transmission, does not determine what the overall gear ratio (primary, transmission, final drive, tire diameter) is in a given bikes top gear. A bike with a three speed transmission could be designed with a taller overall gear ratio in it's top gear, than a "6-speed transmission". Of course that would make a for a very wide-ratio transmission.
We all know that, lets be real though. Less gears = cost savings and less satisfied customers. I knew I would get a response like this from someone. I had 2 - 5 speed bikes and its not enough for someone who rides primarily at GPS speeds of 80 MPH.
I had two criteria for a new bike, 6 speeds and ABS.
MANY people with a 5 speed bike will confirm this with you. Including countless Goldwing riders
5 speeds are cost saving measure OR its on a bike not designed for interstate cruising.
I don't need confirmation of anything. I've owned a bunch of bikes over the decades, and have ridden many more. Having family and friends in the Motorcycle business, I've had the opportunity to ride most of the bikes of the last 30+ years.
You seem to want to have your engine at close to idle speed rolling down the highway at a GPS verified 80 mph. The good news is that you can modify pretty much any bike to your wants, if the manufacturer won't.
Regarding the latest FJR, I like the bike, it being the successor at least in name, of my old FJ1200. If it had another 60 rwhp from the factory, I would likely already own one. I could modify it to produce that, but as yet sufficient motivation to do so isn't there.
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
...
There are a number of Goldwing owners who wish they had that 6th gear, for me an unacceptable compromise only having 5 speeds. One just needs to read the forums/ this is for people who cruise at GPS 80 MPH interstate speeds.
Those GW owners wish they had the extra gear and all will tell you in addition how MPG goes in the toilet at those speeds.
Click, just a tiny page of 6th gear talk out of thousands
Ok one more ...
Lets also keep in mind the GW exaggerates the speed the bike is going (like a lot of brands from Japan) and why important to use GPS speed.
The number of gears in the transmission, does not determine what the overall gear ratio (primary, transmission, final drive, tire diameter) is in a given bikes top gear. A bike with a three speed transmission could be designed with a taller overall gear ratio in it's top gear, than a "6-speed transmission". Of course that would make a for a very wide-ratio transmission.
We all know that, lets be real though. Less gears = cost savings and less satisfied customers. I knew I would get a response like this from someone. I had 2 - 5 speed bikes and its not enough for someone who rides primarily at GPS speeds of 80 MPH.
I had two criteria for a new bike, 6 speeds and ABS.
MANY people with a 5 speed bike will confirm this with you. Including countless Goldwing riders
5 speeds are cost saving measure OR its on a bike not designed for interstate cruising.
I don't need confirmation of anything. I've owned a bunch of bikes over the decades, and have ridden many more. Having family and friends in the Motorcycle business, I've had the opportunity to ride most of the bikes of the last 30+ years.
You seem to want to have your engine at close to idle speed rolling down the highway at a GPS verified 80 mph. The good news is that you can modify pretty much any bike to your wants, if the manufacturer won't.
Regarding the latest FJR, I like the bike, it being the successor at least in name, of my old FJ1200. If it had another 60 rwhp from the factory, I would likely already own one. I could modify it to produce that, but as yet sufficient motivation to do so isn't there.
Some people like you are perfectly happy with 5 speeds and that is great.
There is no sense discounting people who like and want six speeds.
Read your own Goldwing forums, you will find a significant amount of people who wish they had 6th gear, these are the people who cruise a true GPS speeds of 75 to 85 MPH.
These same types of discussions also applied to the FJR 1300 or any motorcycle that is rode at higher speeds for longer distances. There are the ones that said you dont need it and the ones who wished for it.
I assume you know, after a decade (or more) Yamaha added a 6th gear, as did Harley and as did many auto makers.
5 speeds is a cost cutting method/or outdated or designed for vehicles of all types where the purpose of the vehicle is less then long range travel on higher speed interstates.
I am sure the new Goldwing will ship with a 6 speed along with its new engine, it will be interesting, if it doesnt ship with a 6 they will already be behind the times compared to every new cruiser now on the market, including the new 2018 Yamaha Star Venture.
There is no sense discounting people who like and want six speeds.
Read your own Goldwing forums, you will find a significant amount of people who wish they had 6th gear, these are the people who cruise a true GPS speeds of 75 to 85 MPH.
These same types of discussions also applied to the FJR 1300 or any motorcycle that is rode at higher speeds for longer distances. There are the ones that said you dont need it and the ones who wished for it.
I assume you know, after a decade (or more) Yamaha added a 6th gear, as did Harley and as did many auto makers.
5 speeds is a cost cutting method/or outdated or designed for vehicles of all types where the purpose of the vehicle is less then long range travel on higher speed interstates.
I am sure the new Goldwing will ship with a 6 speed along with its new engine, it will be interesting, if it doesnt ship with a 6 they will already be behind the times compared to every new cruiser now on the market, including the new 2018 Yamaha Star Venture.
Man that looks sweet.
M8 what?????? lol
M8 what?????? lol
.
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Whatever trips your trigger.
"Read your own Goldwing forums, you will find a significant amount of people who wish they had 6th gear, these are the people who cruise a true GPS speeds of 75 to 85 MPH."
Cool...then those same people can "cruise" at 90 to 95 mph at the same engine RPM's without sacrificing wear and tear and fuel mileage...
Cool...then those same people can "cruise" at 90 to 95 mph at the same engine RPM's without sacrificing wear and tear and fuel mileage...
With a dct it'll be like riding a giant scooter
What RPM does a Goldwing turn at 85 mph in 5th gear?. And what gas mileage does it get at that speed?.,,,
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I feel that the rpm per mph thing is dependent upon the engine's total rpm range. If a motor with an 11,000 rpm redline cruises GPS 80mph @ 5000rpm how much different is that from a low revving engine (say possibly a Polaris Indian w/ about a 5500 redline) that maintains, say, 2200rpm at the same speed? No idea where a Polaris Thunderstroke 111 settles in at 80mph just guessing but probably somewhere down there?
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