Euro Cars Used to be Very Reliable

[MCompact]

"Electronic" failures in my recent BMWs have been limited to the previously mentioned fan in the 2er, a brake light switch on the ti, and an SRS sensor on the 2004 X3(warranty). To each his own; for me, my wife, and my son the occasional added expense has been more than worth it.
As always, YMMV...

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: Speak2Mountain
Euro Cars Used to be Very Reliable
They never were and they aren't now, what are you talking about?

They can make some magnificent machines, don't get me wrong. Comfortable, good looking, great performing, but reliable? No. Not even close.

 

[Vikas]

Quote:
86 MB S class-never a problem up to 280K (until I put too much premium gas and burned a valve)

What???????

 

[skyactiv]

My wife bought her Audi new over 2 years ago and it's never had a single issue. I've had issues with my VW. I think VAG vehicles are better than they use to be while Toyota, Lexus and Honda are not, even though they are more reliable then most other brands. I'm a mechanic after all. I don't want to see problem free vehicles during my career.

 

[RustyH]

"Yep that Volvo 240 was monster from 0-60"

LOL. Love that. Owned two 240s. Despite being only a tad faster than a snail, I liked them. Don't know if it was the funky rocker switches on the instrument panel or perhaps it being a good car to learn how to do repair/maintenance. The engine bay was huge compared to the small motor. Someone else said it best, the 240s are durable, not necessarily reliable. I also read that Volvo designed the 240 to last 17 years. I still see a lot of them, most are beaters, but some have been well cared for.

 

[cadfaeltex]

Mercy, Volvos, Saabs into the '80s were reliable. Anything compared to '70s American is reliable. My 2003 MB C320 was a nightmare. But what do I know I've had good luck with first gen MINIs and a 20 year old Ford-era Jag.

 

[barryh]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
When were European cars known for reliability?

Mercedes, yes. They were tanks that didn't need much attention, however when they did they weren't cheap!



This is the KEY. The reasons why a modern Mercedes is not as reliable as an old one is because in real terms they are half the price.

I ran a 1989 190e for 21 years and it was almost faultless. But back in 1989 it cost pretty much the same as the the 2009 C class I replaced it with. 20 years and no price increase means something had to give especially as the modern car is vastly more complex.

As a Brit I have to smile at the Lucas Lord of Darkness reputation in the US. We must have sent you all 2nd quality components because I have never in 45 years had a reliability problem with anything made by Lucas. I'll admit Lucas wasn't in the same league as Bosch for design and quality but it never let me down. For the real poor quality electrics back in the 70's I would look no further than my 1971 Ducati.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

Originally Posted By: Linctex
Were French or Italian cars EVER worth buying?!??
Might as well have a Yugo or a Fiat 500 POP, And how about the LUCAS electrical components?

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: barryh
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
When were European cars known for reliability?

Mercedes, yes. They were tanks that didn't need much attention, however when they did they weren't cheap!



This is the KEY. The reasons why a modern Mercedes is not as reliable as an old one is because in real terms they are half the price.

I ran a 1989 190e for 21 years and it was almost faultless. But back in 1989 it cost pretty much the same as the the 2009 C class I replaced it with. 20 years and no price increase means something had to give especially as the modern car is vastly more complex.

As a Brit I have to smile at the Lucas Lord of Darkness reputation in the US. We must have sent you all 2nd quality components because I have never in 45 years had a reliability problem with anything made by Lucas. I'll admit Lucas wasn't in the same league as Bosch for design and quality but it never let me down. For the real poor quality electrics back in the 70's I would look no further than my 1971 Ducati.


They keep cutting features from one model to the next to keep adding features. Also I'm not surprised that a 2003 was bad, that was when MB was still part of Chrysler. Lots of people still think they're pretty bad, but they got better a few years after they got rid of Chrysler. For instance, after they went to LED and got rid of the bixenons, they got rid of the headlamp washers. They also used to have soft close doors or the doors would pop open but they also got rid of that option. Some of the design got better too, from the W211, their keyless go door handles would fail because it was a rubber button, water eventually got in and corroded the contacts. On the W212, it's just an external sensor so the door handles aren't going bad like the W211.

 

[B320i]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: Speak2Mountain
Euro Cars Used to be Very Reliable
They never were and they aren't now, what are you talking about?

They can make some magnificent machines, don't get me wrong. Comfortable, good looking, great performing, but reliable? No. Not even close.

Again, I cite the simple BMWs of the 1990s. About the only real mod-con my BMW has is climate control (and even then its only automatic temperature and has analogue controls). Although it must be said, with regular maintenance most vehicles should go the distance; whether the electronic gimmicks do too is another question entirely.

Most cars have weak-spots, but I can't say any work I've done is anything but routine. You can't say "no European car was ever reliable," because plenty of them evidently were - I see more 90s BMWs around than I do domestic makes (these existed in plague proportions in the past).
Having experienced the domestic competitors of my 3-series: There is no comparison in quality. My vehicle's interior is still intact, without squeaks and rattles. The engine is good, as is the transmission. Meanwhile, Falcons of the 90s were plagued with head gasket issues that took over a decade for Ford to rectify, and neither Fords or Holdens were ever put together that well. Neither had particularly good fuel economy. Both types had decent power-trains, overall, but were let down in various ways.

Parts for BMWs in Australia are ludicrously expensive. In this day and age though, one needn't fuel price gouging. Purchasing online can mean prices just 1/5 of what is asked locally. While I certainly agree with "supporting the little guys," if they want to charge 5x the price of U.S. outlets (after currency exchange), they can get stuffed.

 

[camrydriver111]

Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
Lexus killed German brands...the Germans tried to "out electronic" the Asians and failed. There's a reason we have Sony TVs at home, not Grundig.


It hasn't killed them in sales. People still go for the BMW even thought it might have more problems.

Lexus is also the only premium Japanese brand that had some sort of success.
Infinity and Acura have not been successful and have very poor sales.

 

[NGRhodes]

What do you call a French car without a rattle ? Broken down.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
Lexus killed German brands...the Germans tried to "out electronic" the Asians and failed. There's a reason we have Sony TVs at home, not Grundig.


It hasn't killed them in sales. People still go for the BMW even thought it might have more problems.

Lexus is also the only premium Japanese brand that had some sort of success.
Infinity and Acura have not been successful and have very poor sales.


Well..

Would someone rather buy a Lexus or an Audi? Say they are both AWD with identical interiors. Leather, nav etc.

 

[Claud]

Originally Posted By: Leo99
When were European cars known for reliability?

In the 1960's Peugeot and to a lesser extent Renault models carried a reputation for reliability to rival Volkswaaen. Peugeot's 404 and its pick-up dervative could be seen all over third world countries, particularly in Africa, serving as taxi cabs and workhorses. a good indicator of tough durabilty I think.
In the 1960's BMW, Mercedes Benz, Peugeot, Renault, Saab, Volvo and Volkswagen all built straightforward, easy to repair, and rugged vehicles. Since that golden era they have all become more sophisticated and complex, and are at once less reliable and harder to fix.

Claud.

 

[BobFout]

In my previous 2003 Jetta or my current 2015 GTI, I've never hesitated to hop in and drive a couple thousand miles.

 

[Alfred_B]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
Lexus killed German brands...the Germans tried to "out electronic" the Asians and failed. There's a reason we have Sony TVs at home, not Grundig.


It hasn't killed them in sales. People still go for the BMW even thought it might have more problems.

Lexus is also the only premium Japanese brand that had some sort of success.
Infinity and Acura have not been successful and have very poor sales.


Well..

Would someone rather buy a Lexus or an Audi? Say they are both AWD with identical interiors. Leather, nav etc.


Audi, of course.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
Lexus killed German brands...the Germans tried to "out electronic" the Asians and failed. There's a reason we have Sony TVs at home, not Grundig.


It hasn't killed them in sales. People still go for the BMW even thought it might have more problems.

Lexus is also the only premium Japanese brand that had some sort of success.
Infinity and Acura have not been successful and have very poor sales.


Well..

Would someone rather buy a Lexus or an Audi? Say they are both AWD with identical interiors. Leather, nav etc.


Well the problem is that they aren't. That's why I went with a Mercedes over a Lexus. Plus I always wanted an MB, never felt that way about Lexus. Also Lexus has that funny shaped front grill, don't really like it. They also didn't have as many available options like no panorama sunroof.

 

[UncleDave]

Don't recall a time anything from Europe was actually considered wholly "reliable"- with one exception the old simple diesel MB engines themselves ( the car around it was always a money pit however)

Even if the engines and trans in certain configs have been, the rest of the car let people down with stunning regularity. Window lifts/cranks, o2 sensors, door seals, wiper motors, heaters, and air conditioners were finicky.

UD

 

[Benzadmiral]

Originally Posted By: Speak2Mountain
Evidence: We owned 83 MB 300TD never ever a problem up to 250K
86 MB S class-never a problem up to 280K (until I put too much premium gas and burned a valve)
85 3 series never a problem up 150K
91 Volvo-never a problem up 130K

My '86 420SEL never stranded me but once, when the coil-to-distributor wire cracked. At 140K miles. New wire and we were off to roam Colorado again. The big car even survived Loozyana, until it was totaled while parked . . . and it still drove just fine.

 

[chrisri]

Bull, our Renault was put out of service at 450 k km of not so pretty life. Still in service today by the new owner. Friend's Toy D4D blew it's HG under 100k- known fault. When Asian OEM have to compete in EU market with turbocharged common rail diesels and turbocharged petrol cars they loose their competivnes they have in NA. Complexity ads problems. It all comes to personal preference/market conditions. In NA I would certainly drive different cars.
But one can ask how come the whole world is driving either Asian or European vehicles-except NA , of course. Nobody is driving American vehicles. From cold weather of Russia, over rough conditions of Africa to the heat of Latin America. Either Asian or European. Great success for a unreliable manufacturers.