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#4520834 - 09/20/17 12:30 AM MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two?
tompumped Offline


Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 6
Loc: ny
https://www.sherwin-williams.com/document/SDS/en/764423182094/US/

file:///C:/Users/m/Downloads/SDS%20E%20-%20PY4003.pdf

I actually spent two hours researching different brake cleaners and I can't find a definitive answer on which is the best 5 gallon purchase to make so i'm going with these two. I have no idea how to make the determination of which would be the better choice.

I've spent a lot of money over the years on the cans I just bought a zep sprayer, next is the fluid. I have no idea which will clean better of the two. Honestly i've seen no difference in cleaning power with all the different brands I used.

Pic is the sprayer I just purchased. Thank You

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#4520835 - 09/20/17 12:32 AM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: tompumped]
tompumped Offline


Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 6
Loc: ny
People seem to think it's way overpriced for the sherwin williams one since it's naptha and ethanol. If it cleans good I don't care about the price. If it's less harmful that's also a plus. I rarely wear gloves when handling parts/rags soaked in brake clean. I might start wearing them honestly.

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#4520839 - 09/20/17 12:57 AM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: tompumped]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 3043
Loc: Waco, TX
I just use acetone or lacquer thinner, whichever is cheaper.

Most any solvent will work, so just go with what doesn't cost so much.

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#4520840 - 09/20/17 01:00 AM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: tompumped]
Colt45ws Offline


Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 9496
Loc: Central Washington
I go though a metric [censored] load of the stuff, so I just buy what is cheap. Ive never had brake cleaner not do the business.
I just make sure its non-chlorinated (Since I sometimes use it to clean before/after welding) and I buy 6 or more of them.
_________________________
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2002 Ford Crown Vic PI 207k, Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42
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#4520841 - 09/20/17 01:01 AM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: tompumped]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 3111
Loc: Taiwan
Dunno about OF the two, but water is better THAN the two, and beats them hands down on price, availability, and toxicity.


Edited by Ducked (09/20/17 01:02 AM)

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#4520879 - 09/20/17 02:20 AM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: Ducked]
Billbert Offline


Registered: 10/09/09
Posts: 313
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Dunno about OF the two, but water is better THAN the two, and beats them hands down on price, availability, and toxicity.

The problem is that water will not degrease worth a darn
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#4520880 - 09/20/17 02:27 AM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: tompumped]
Dave9 Offline


Registered: 08/28/17
Posts: 83
Loc: Cincinnati, USA
Water? lolGTFO

It's only slightly worse than air, which is even cheaper.

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#4520950 - 09/20/17 06:57 AM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: Billbert]
itguy08 Offline


Registered: 09/15/11
Posts: 2970
Loc: Somewhere
Originally Posted By: Billbert
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Dunno about OF the two, but water is better THAN the two, and beats them hands down on price, availability, and toxicity.

The problem is that water will not degrease worth a darn


Add a little Dawn. Don't know what's in that stuff but it degreases awesome.

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#4521011 - 09/20/17 08:29 AM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: tompumped]
Rolla07 Offline


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 4108
Loc: MTL, CANADA
I find chlorinated works better.
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#4521039 - 09/20/17 08:57 AM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: Linctex]
Bgallagher Offline


Registered: 04/17/12
Posts: 3124
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: Linctex
I just use acetone or lacquer thinner, whichever is cheaper.

Most any solvent will work, so just go with what doesn't cost so much.


Good idea. How do you do it? Sprayer? soak a rag?
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#4521554 - 09/20/17 06:42 PM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: Billbert]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 3111
Loc: Taiwan
Originally Posted By: Billbert
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Dunno about OF the two, but water is better THAN the two, and beats them hands down on price, availability, and toxicity.

The problem is that water will not degrease worth a darn


I don't find that much of a problem, since I don't find my brakes get greasy, though boiling water with detergent in it does remove some old grease from the backing plates.

My brakes get dusty, and the problem is that brake cleaner will not de-dust worth a darn.

If they were significantly greasy I'd think that would be a problem that could not be addressed by a wee squirt of brake cleaner

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#4521566 - 09/20/17 06:48 PM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: Dave9]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 3111
Loc: Taiwan
Originally Posted By: Dave9
Water? lolGTFO

It's only slightly worse than air, which is even cheaper.


Air isn't free. You need a compressor, and then later on you might need expensive medical care.

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#4521612 - 09/20/17 07:44 PM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: Ducked]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 3111
Loc: Taiwan
and a funeral....but OK, you'll need that eventually anyway.

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#4521795 - 09/21/17 12:11 AM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: tompumped]
Colt45ws Offline


Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 9496
Loc: Central Washington
I dunno. Eveything Ive ever hosed down with brake cleaner ends up pretty clean. And yeah, it melts grease like a torch to a stick of butter. I must go through at least like 12 cans a year or more.


I also have used it in a pinch as point defense against WASPS, since it melts their wings and they fall out of the sky.


Edited by Colt45ws (09/21/17 12:13 AM)
_________________________
-Colton
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI 207k, Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42
Down for engine swap
2003 Ford Crown Vic PI 70k
Havoline HM 5W20, Supertech ST2

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#4522536 - 09/21/17 06:57 PM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: Ducked]
tompumped Offline


Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 6
Loc: ny
I just wanted to know which would be the better of the two. I'd try other solvents but at times i've sprayed it all over everything under the hood to remove brake fluid. I'm not sure if it would be ok with other solvents. Degreasing an engine you can't control where it goes sometimes. There is nothing better for removing oil in hard to reach places.

I mostly use it to remove oil/grease, or clean guns.

Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: Billbert
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Dunno about OF the two, but water is better THAN the two, and beats them hands down on price, availability, and toxicity.

The problem is that water will not degrease worth a darn


I don't find that much of a problem, since I don't find my brakes get greasy, though boiling water with detergent in it does remove some old grease from the backing plates.

My brakes get dusty, and the problem is that brake cleaner will not de-dust worth a darn.

If they were significantly greasy I'd think that would be a problem that could not be addressed by a wee squirt of brake cleaner
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: Dave9
Water? lolGTFO

It's only slightly worse than air, which is even cheaper.


Air isn't free. You need a compressor, and then later on you might need expensive medical care.
Originally Posted By: Ducked
and a funeral....but OK, you'll need that eventually anyway.



Thank you for your valuable input, be sure to de-dust your brakes monthly.

I'm sure it's going to blow up in my face. I bet it happens all the time, they probably sell them just to maim with the hope of death.

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#4522705 - 09/21/17 10:45 PM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: tompumped]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 3111
Loc: Taiwan
Originally Posted By: tompumped

Thank you for your valuable input, be sure to de-dust your brakes monthly.

I'm sure it's going to blow up in my face. I bet it happens all the time, they probably sell them just to maim with the hope of death.


I'd guess this is sarcasm, which implies that brake dust isn't unhealthy.

Who knows, you may be right. Given that it took a couple of hundred years of massive scale usage/death to do anything about asbestos, there's really no way of telling what the effect of current formulations will be, assuming they don't have asbestos in them.

I can't actually confidently assume they don't have asbestos in them since I'm in Taiwan and don't know what the local regulations are or, more critically, what they do about enforcing them.

Since its very easy to de-dust with water, that's what I'll continue to do.

Water is also good at removing brake fluid, better than brake cleaner in fact, since brake fluid is water-miscible.

I'm still a bit unclear why all this "de-greasing" is required.

Grease on backing plates isn't generally doing any harm, that's where it should be.

If its really old and stiff then I might use brake cleaner/kerosene/naptha/petrol, perhaps with a rag/cotton bud to remove it, but a rebuild and re-grease is probably indicated then.

If the friction material is significantly greasy then (a) throw it away (b) throw it away (c) don't let that happen again (d) how the **** did that happen anyway?

I have heard of oil-contaminated brake shoes being revived by a long soak in petrol, which is then burned off and wicks the oil to the surface to be burned. Never tried it, and I'm not sure I would.

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#4523473 - 09/22/17 07:07 PM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: tompumped]
tompumped Offline


Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 6
Loc: ny
I will never understand people like you ever in my life. It's almost funny but it isn't. I truly thought this would be one of the places where people like you wouldn't be, but I was wrong. I'd suggest rereading your posts over again and sitting and thinking for a minute about it but i'm sure it will never come to you.

Yes I implied brake dust is healthy, I didn't think you were sharp enough to grasp the hidden meaning behind it. Studies prove it's good for you. It has nothing to do with the fact that there is no reason whatsoever to de-dust your brakes. I worked at one shop that would charge a fee to clean and adjust rear drum brakes but I think it was a waste of time to clean them and remove dust. I've never not once in sixteen years of auto repair had dust cause an issue. If I had a car with brembos and nice rims than maybe i'd do it.

You're right there is no need for what I want to do there's no need to degrease anything ever, it's truly not required. All these shops around the world that use brake cleaner could just be using water. That answer was so simple and right there the whole time. I now understand.

I wonder how much of the rest of your post history is filled with such knowledge bombs as the ones in this thread.

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#4523651 - 09/22/17 11:21 PM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: tompumped]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 3111
Loc: Taiwan
Originally Posted By: tompumped
I will never understand people like you ever in my life. It's almost funny but it isn't. I truly thought this would be one of the places where people like you wouldn't be, but I was wrong. I'd suggest rereading your posts over again and sitting and thinking for a minute about it but i'm sure it will never come to you.


Uh-huh. OTOH maybe your "sitting and thinking" productivity is limited by:-

"Exposure to 1-1-1-trichloroethane vapors can cause central nervous system damage, dizziness, incoordination, drowsiness, and increased reaction time."

Originally Posted By: tompumped


Yes I implied brake dust is healthy, I didn't think you were sharp enough to grasp the hidden meaning behind it. Studies prove it's good for you. It has nothing to do with the fact that there is no reason whatsoever to de-dust your brakes. I worked at one shop that would charge a fee to clean and adjust rear drum brakes but I think it was a waste of time to clean them and remove dust. I've never not once in sixteen years of auto repair had dust cause an issue. If I had a car with brembos and nice rims than maybe i'd do it.


Dust accumulates in drum brakes. I dunno if that affects function, but a large accumulation might, a bit. I understand the dust also corrodes aluminium wheels, but I don't have them, so that doesn't bother me.

My main reason for removing brake dust is that I don't want it there while I'm working on the brakes. If you think its just the tonic that tired lungs need, fine. Tip it on a mirror and snort it through a rolled up bill for all I care, but I'll pass, thanks.

Originally Posted By: tompumped


You're right there is no need for what I want to do there's no need to degrease anything ever, it's truly not required. All these shops around the world that use brake cleaner could just be using water. That answer was so simple and right there the whole time. I now understand.


I speak as I find, and I find my brakes don't get greasy. I've had oily brake shoes once due to a leaking oil seal.

Maybe I could just have sprayed brake cleaner on it and it would have got better? Doh! NOW you tell me.

Originally Posted By: tompumped

I wonder how much of the rest of your post history is filled with such knowledge bombs as the ones in this thread.


Dunno, but thinking for yourself does tend to generate them from time to time, if the solvent abuse hasn't gone too far.


Edited by Ducked (09/22/17 11:30 PM)

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#4523689 - 09/23/17 01:11 AM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: tompumped]
tompumped Offline


Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 6
Loc: ny
Like I expected you aren't capable of rationalizing by taking a minute and reading through your posts and thinking about it. I know for a fact I will never in my life get to a point where I felt the need to go in a thread and do what you did. Just like you can't begin to understand how pathetic and illogical it is, I can't even begin to understand what it takes in life to get to that point. It's truly mind boggling. I'd seriously consider lurking more, you might learn something, or you can detract and derail the thread whichever makes more sense.

Anyone who has worked on cars for a living or works on cars for a living knows how valuable brake cleaner is, you will never get it no matter how much you try and wrap your closed mind around it. Here's a secret, it isn't just for brakes. How's that for thinking for myself!

Maybe in taiwan if you use it for anything other than brakes you'll get arrested, but here you're free to do as you please. I'm sure in Taiwan you're allowed to think real hard for yourself and question everything and anything if you so chose without any consequence whatsoever. It's hilarious to see people speak of thinking for themselves but so many are so hopelessly brainwashed and programmed it's a tragedy. Hypothetically, if you started thinking too hard about the wonderful chinese government and being vocal in taiwan i'd bet you'd disappear in an instant. I often think of moving to china or taiwan to be surround by such wonderful soulless, err, I mean soulful people who value every single human life. It must be like paradise over there. I always wanted to live where I could eat tortured cats and dogs cooked in gutter oil and throw my newborn daughter out like the trash she is. If I move there can you find me a job torturing and cooking dogs that is all i've wanted to so since a child. Maybe if i'm real lucky I can get a job killing prisoners or late term aborted fetuses and harvesting their organs.


Once again thank you for your contribution. I wouldn't be the technician I am today if it wasn't for great minds like yourself taking the time to share your knowledge with others on the internet.


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#4523700 - 09/23/17 02:29 AM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: tompumped]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 3111
Loc: Taiwan
Originally Posted By: tompumped
Like I expected you aren't capable of rationalizing by taking a minute and reading through your posts and thinking about it. I know for a fact I will never in my life get to a point where I felt the need to go in a thread and do what you did. Just like you can't begin to understand how pathetic and illogical it is, I can't even begin to understand what it takes in life to get to that point. It's truly mind boggling. I'd seriously consider lurking more, you might learn something, or you can detract and derail the thread whichever makes more sense.

Anyone who has worked on cars for a living or works on cars for a living knows how valuable brake cleaner is, you will never get it no matter how much you try and wrap your closed mind around it. Here's a secret, it isn't just for brakes. How's that for thinking for myself!

Maybe in taiwan if you use it for anything other than brakes you'll get arrested, but here you're free to do as you please. I'm sure in Taiwan you're allowed to think real hard for yourself and question everything and anything if you so chose without any consequence whatsoever. It's hilarious to see people speak of thinking for themselves but so many are so hopelessly brainwashed and programmed it's a tragedy. Hypothetically, if you started thinking too hard about the wonderful chinese government and being vocal in taiwan i'd bet you'd disappear in an instant. I often think of moving to china or taiwan to be surround by such wonderful soulless, err, I mean soulful people who value every single human life. It must be like paradise over there. I always wanted to live where I could eat tortured cats and dogs cooked in gutter oil and throw my newborn daughter out like the trash she is. If I move there can you find me a job torturing and cooking dogs that is all i've wanted to so since a child. Maybe if i'm real lucky I can get a job killing prisoners or late term aborted fetuses and harvesting their organs.


Once again thank you for your contribution. I wouldn't be the technician I am today if it wasn't for great minds like yourself taking the time to share your knowledge with others on the internet.



Uh-huh

Re "All these shops around the world that use brake cleaner could just be using water." I thought about that for a minute, like you suggested.

Number 1 (always popular, especially in Taiwan)

Nobody does it because....nobody does it.

Closed minds aside, deviating from accepted commercial practice is risky. There might be unsuspected gotcha's, and even if there aren't, deviating from established practice might expose you to liability simply because you've...er...deviated from established practice. Doesn't affect me working on my own vehicle.

Number 2 : Time is Money

Brake cleaner dries fast, water doesn't, even here. Commercially you might not have the time to let it dry naturally. You could flush it down with alcohol but that's another step/cost. Doesn't affect me working on my own vehicle.


Number 3 : Lack of safety concern

Techs might not consider brake dust dangerous and even if an individual tech did his boss might disagree. Doesn't affect me working on my own vehicle.


Number 4: Harmful effects of water

Could promote corrosion (doesn't seem to) cause temporary loss of braking performance, or freeze. All of these except the first are addressed by letting it dry (and by not doing it below 0C), which I can do because I'm not on a clock, and I'm in Taiwan.

Re "It isn't only for brakes" sure. There are cases where degreasing is required. I have some 3M brake cleaner in an aerosol can but I don't use it much since other solvents, notably petrol, are cheaper and seem to be as effective.

I'd guess there are cases where brake cleaner is the best choice. I'd hope, for example, that it was relatively rubber-friendly.

However, hosing down an engine compartment soaked in brake fluid, which you mention doing above, doesn't seem to be one of them, and routine brake cleaning isn't either.


Edited by Ducked (09/23/17 02:37 AM)

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#4523727 - 09/23/17 04:51 AM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: Ducked]
4WD Offline


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 4448
Loc: Texas/International
Ok - at home - wash with water - dry with leaf blower (PPE as desired) - if any residual grease try 3M, CRC, or Berryman brake cleaner. However - not all commercial service departments want water hose freelancers in the shop.
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#4523949 - 09/23/17 11:53 AM Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: 4WD]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 3111
Loc: Taiwan
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Ok - at home - wash with water - dry with leaf blower (PPE as desired) - if any residual grease try 3M, CRC, or Berryman brake cleaner. However - not all commercial service departments want water hose freelancers in the shop.


I wouldn't use a leaf blower, mostly because I don't have one, but partly because of the small risk that some residual dust would become airborne. If I was in a big hurry I'd spray with ethanol, but I'd try and avoid being in a big hurry.

Washed down brakes dry pretty quickly here, especially if I use hot water, though that could increase corrosion a bit.

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