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Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: tompumped] #4522705
09/21/17 10:45 PM
09/21/17 10:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,607
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,607
Taiwan
Originally Posted By: tompumped

Thank you for your valuable input, be sure to de-dust your brakes monthly.

I'm sure it's going to blow up in my face. I bet it happens all the time, they probably sell them just to maim with the hope of death.


I'd guess this is sarcasm, which implies that brake dust isn't unhealthy.

Who knows, you may be right. Given that it took a couple of hundred years of massive scale usage/death to do anything about asbestos, there's really no way of telling what the effect of current formulations will be, assuming they don't have asbestos in them.

I can't actually confidently assume they don't have asbestos in them since I'm in Taiwan and don't know what the local regulations are or, more critically, what they do about enforcing them.

Since its very easy to de-dust with water, that's what I'll continue to do.

Water is also good at removing brake fluid, better than brake cleaner in fact, since brake fluid is water-miscible.

I'm still a bit unclear why all this "de-greasing" is required.

Grease on backing plates isn't generally doing any harm, that's where it should be.

If its really old and stiff then I might use brake cleaner/kerosene/naptha/petrol, perhaps with a rag/cotton bud to remove it, but a rebuild and re-grease is probably indicated then.

If the friction material is significantly greasy then (a) throw it away (b) throw it away (c) don't let that happen again (d) how the **** did that happen anyway?

I have heard of oil-contaminated brake shoes being revived by a long soak in petrol, which is then burned off and wicks the oil to the surface to be burned. Never tried it, and I'm not sure I would.

Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: tompumped] #4523473
09/22/17 07:07 PM
09/22/17 07:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6
ny
tompumped Offline OP
tompumped  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6
ny
I will never understand people like you ever in my life. It's almost funny but it isn't. I truly thought this would be one of the places where people like you wouldn't be, but I was wrong. I'd suggest rereading your posts over again and sitting and thinking for a minute about it but i'm sure it will never come to you.

Yes I implied brake dust is healthy, I didn't think you were sharp enough to grasp the hidden meaning behind it. Studies prove it's good for you. It has nothing to do with the fact that there is no reason whatsoever to de-dust your brakes. I worked at one shop that would charge a fee to clean and adjust rear drum brakes but I think it was a waste of time to clean them and remove dust. I've never not once in sixteen years of auto repair had dust cause an issue. If I had a car with brembos and nice rims than maybe i'd do it.

You're right there is no need for what I want to do there's no need to degrease anything ever, it's truly not required. All these shops around the world that use brake cleaner could just be using water. That answer was so simple and right there the whole time. I now understand.

I wonder how much of the rest of your post history is filled with such knowledge bombs as the ones in this thread.

Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: tompumped] #4523651
09/22/17 11:21 PM
09/22/17 11:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,607
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,607
Taiwan
Originally Posted By: tompumped
I will never understand people like you ever in my life. It's almost funny but it isn't. I truly thought this would be one of the places where people like you wouldn't be, but I was wrong. I'd suggest rereading your posts over again and sitting and thinking for a minute about it but i'm sure it will never come to you.


Uh-huh. OTOH maybe your "sitting and thinking" productivity is limited by:-

"Exposure to 1-1-1-trichloroethane vapors can cause central nervous system damage, dizziness, incoordination, drowsiness, and increased reaction time."

Originally Posted By: tompumped


Yes I implied brake dust is healthy, I didn't think you were sharp enough to grasp the hidden meaning behind it. Studies prove it's good for you. It has nothing to do with the fact that there is no reason whatsoever to de-dust your brakes. I worked at one shop that would charge a fee to clean and adjust rear drum brakes but I think it was a waste of time to clean them and remove dust. I've never not once in sixteen years of auto repair had dust cause an issue. If I had a car with brembos and nice rims than maybe i'd do it.


Dust accumulates in drum brakes. I dunno if that affects function, but a large accumulation might, a bit. I understand the dust also corrodes aluminium wheels, but I don't have them, so that doesn't bother me.

My main reason for removing brake dust is that I don't want it there while I'm working on the brakes. If you think its just the tonic that tired lungs need, fine. Tip it on a mirror and snort it through a rolled up bill for all I care, but I'll pass, thanks.

Originally Posted By: tompumped


You're right there is no need for what I want to do there's no need to degrease anything ever, it's truly not required. All these shops around the world that use brake cleaner could just be using water. That answer was so simple and right there the whole time. I now understand.


I speak as I find, and I find my brakes don't get greasy. I've had oily brake shoes once due to a leaking oil seal.

Maybe I could just have sprayed brake cleaner on it and it would have got better? Doh! NOW you tell me.

Originally Posted By: tompumped

I wonder how much of the rest of your post history is filled with such knowledge bombs as the ones in this thread.


Dunno, but thinking for yourself does tend to generate them from time to time, if the solvent abuse hasn't gone too far.

Last edited by Ducked; 09/22/17 11:30 PM.
Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: tompumped] #4523689
09/23/17 01:11 AM
09/23/17 01:11 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6
ny
tompumped Offline OP
tompumped  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6
ny
Like I expected you aren't capable of rationalizing by taking a minute and reading through your posts and thinking about it. I know for a fact I will never in my life get to a point where I felt the need to go in a thread and do what you did. Just like you can't begin to understand how pathetic and illogical it is, I can't even begin to understand what it takes in life to get to that point. It's truly mind boggling. I'd seriously consider lurking more, you might learn something, or you can detract and derail the thread whichever makes more sense.

Anyone who has worked on cars for a living or works on cars for a living knows how valuable brake cleaner is, you will never get it no matter how much you try and wrap your closed mind around it. Here's a secret, it isn't just for brakes. How's that for thinking for myself!

Maybe in taiwan if you use it for anything other than brakes you'll get arrested, but here you're free to do as you please. I'm sure in Taiwan you're allowed to think real hard for yourself and question everything and anything if you so chose without any consequence whatsoever. It's hilarious to see people speak of thinking for themselves but so many are so hopelessly brainwashed and programmed it's a tragedy. Hypothetically, if you started thinking too hard about the wonderful chinese government and being vocal in taiwan i'd bet you'd disappear in an instant. I often think of moving to china or taiwan to be surround by such wonderful soulless, err, I mean soulful people who value every single human life. It must be like paradise over there. I always wanted to live where I could eat tortured cats and dogs cooked in gutter oil and throw my newborn daughter out like the trash she is. If I move there can you find me a job torturing and cooking dogs that is all i've wanted to so since a child. Maybe if i'm real lucky I can get a job killing prisoners or late term aborted fetuses and harvesting their organs.


Once again thank you for your contribution. I wouldn't be the technician I am today if it wasn't for great minds like yourself taking the time to share your knowledge with others on the internet.


Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: tompumped] #4523700
09/23/17 02:29 AM
09/23/17 02:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,607
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,607
Taiwan
Originally Posted By: tompumped
Like I expected you aren't capable of rationalizing by taking a minute and reading through your posts and thinking about it. I know for a fact I will never in my life get to a point where I felt the need to go in a thread and do what you did. Just like you can't begin to understand how pathetic and illogical it is, I can't even begin to understand what it takes in life to get to that point. It's truly mind boggling. I'd seriously consider lurking more, you might learn something, or you can detract and derail the thread whichever makes more sense.

Anyone who has worked on cars for a living or works on cars for a living knows how valuable brake cleaner is, you will never get it no matter how much you try and wrap your closed mind around it. Here's a secret, it isn't just for brakes. How's that for thinking for myself!

Maybe in taiwan if you use it for anything other than brakes you'll get arrested, but here you're free to do as you please. I'm sure in Taiwan you're allowed to think real hard for yourself and question everything and anything if you so chose without any consequence whatsoever. It's hilarious to see people speak of thinking for themselves but so many are so hopelessly brainwashed and programmed it's a tragedy. Hypothetically, if you started thinking too hard about the wonderful chinese government and being vocal in taiwan i'd bet you'd disappear in an instant. I often think of moving to china or taiwan to be surround by such wonderful soulless, err, I mean soulful people who value every single human life. It must be like paradise over there. I always wanted to live where I could eat tortured cats and dogs cooked in gutter oil and throw my newborn daughter out like the trash she is. If I move there can you find me a job torturing and cooking dogs that is all i've wanted to so since a child. Maybe if i'm real lucky I can get a job killing prisoners or late term aborted fetuses and harvesting their organs.


Once again thank you for your contribution. I wouldn't be the technician I am today if it wasn't for great minds like yourself taking the time to share your knowledge with others on the internet.



Uh-huh

Re "All these shops around the world that use brake cleaner could just be using water." I thought about that for a minute, like you suggested.

Number 1 (always popular, especially in Taiwan)

Nobody does it because....nobody does it.

Closed minds aside, deviating from accepted commercial practice is risky. There might be unsuspected gotcha's, and even if there aren't, deviating from established practice might expose you to liability simply because you've...er...deviated from established practice. Doesn't affect me working on my own vehicle.

Number 2 : Time is Money

Brake cleaner dries fast, water doesn't, even here. Commercially you might not have the time to let it dry naturally. You could flush it down with alcohol but that's another step/cost. Doesn't affect me working on my own vehicle.


Number 3 : Lack of safety concern

Techs might not consider brake dust dangerous and even if an individual tech did his boss might disagree. Doesn't affect me working on my own vehicle.


Number 4: Harmful effects of water

Could promote corrosion (doesn't seem to) cause temporary loss of braking performance, or freeze. All of these except the first are addressed by letting it dry (and by not doing it below 0C), which I can do because I'm not on a clock, and I'm in Taiwan.

Re "It isn't only for brakes" sure. There are cases where degreasing is required. I have some 3M brake cleaner in an aerosol can but I don't use it much since other solvents, notably petrol, are cheaper and seem to be as effective.

I'd guess there are cases where brake cleaner is the best choice. I'd hope, for example, that it was relatively rubber-friendly.

However, hosing down an engine compartment soaked in brake fluid, which you mention doing above, doesn't seem to be one of them, and routine brake cleaning isn't either.

Last edited by Ducked; 09/23/17 02:37 AM.
Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: Ducked] #4523727
09/23/17 04:51 AM
09/23/17 04:51 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,990
Texas
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,990
Texas
Ok - at home - wash with water - dry with leaf blower (PPE as desired) - if any residual grease try 3M, CRC, or Berryman brake cleaner. However - not all commercial service departments want water hose freelancers in the shop.

Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: 4WD] #4523949
09/23/17 11:53 AM
09/23/17 11:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,607
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,607
Taiwan
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Ok - at home - wash with water - dry with leaf blower (PPE as desired) - if any residual grease try 3M, CRC, or Berryman brake cleaner. However - not all commercial service departments want water hose freelancers in the shop.


I wouldn't use a leaf blower, mostly because I don't have one, but partly because of the small risk that some residual dust would become airborne. If I was in a big hurry I'd spray with ethanol, but I'd try and avoid being in a big hurry.

Washed down brakes dry pretty quickly here, especially if I use hot water, though that could increase corrosion a bit.

Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: tompumped] #4727043
04/14/18 07:13 PM
04/14/18 07:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 438
USA
AITG Offline
AITG  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 438
USA
Ok, international rock-throwing aside I only use the non-flammable variety. It removes grease like crazy and I can use it on an engine without worrying about fire.
Yes, it's known to cause a hacking cough in the California Condor. Since I don't degrease Condors I don't care.


The answer to 80% of BITOG questions: Read the book, follow directions.
Changing oil is not maintenance. Maintenance is the science of inspecting equipment to find and fix things before they break.
Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: tompumped] #4739760
04/26/18 03:48 PM
04/26/18 03:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,154
California
nthach Online content
nthach  Online Content
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,154
California
California banned the chlorinated stuff due to VOCs and ground water effects - but you can still find it as electric motor cleaner, it still has perc in it. The non-chlorinated stuff flashes off too quickly before it can work. A big plus to non-chlorinated cleaners is that you can use the same oil catch pan to rinse brakes off to catch spent product and it won't contaminate your waste oil.

I can't see the SDS for the 2nd cleaner, but if you're going to use in a bulk sprayer try them both and see what has the best cost/benefit ratio.

Ironically, there is a chlorinated solvent that's approved in CA in coatings(parachlorobenzotrifluoride) that Berryman's is now marketing in CA. Some shops here in CA are now using Safety-Kleen's aqueous parts cleaner for brakes. I've used soap and water or non-chlorinated spray on brake inspections, it's whatever I have on hand.

Re: MSDS: Which Brake cleaner is better of the two? [Re: tompumped] #4755419
05/12/18 09:37 PM
05/12/18 09:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,525
Marshfield , MA
andyd Offline
andyd  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,525
Marshfield , MA
All I know is that my breast cancer wasn't hereditary. That leaves environmental pollution. Long chain chemicals aren't good to ingest or inhale.


'16 Camry LE STP synth 0w20 and STP filter. the Fridge

1994 Ranger ,the Rat, 5w30 dino, STP filter

'16 Camry SE, Valvoline HM 0w20 and OEM filter
Thick oil is better grin2
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