Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Not a liter or two, actually.
Maybe 500 CCs at the most.
Drain hot and minimize the amount left.
Not a liter or two, actually.
Maybe 500 CCs at the most.
Drain hot and minimize the amount left.
So what probably happened?
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gathermewool
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Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Oil colour alone tells you very little. It's an unreliable indicator of anything, actually.
+1
However, there's a huge difference between black-looking oil with 2k miles on it and black oil with 7k miles on it. My old STI used to turn oil dark very quickly; however, the opacity changed as the miles got on. 7k-mile-old oil looked pretty gross and indicated pretty much depleted in UOA.
Reads like a fairly definite -1 to me.
I've got no such experience, but I'd say oil colour is a pretty good indication of oil colour, and it has to be caused by something.
Nope. Key word is color. Opacity, smell and other properties can tell a partial tale. While an UOA is the only definitive method of analysis, visually apparent characteristics are not completely worthless.
Like I said, the oil in my STI would look very dark, but clear and cleanish-looking after only a few thousand miles. At 7k, the oil would be less visually transparent, its characteristics would change on a piece of paper towel while checking the dipstick and its smell would even tell me it was used up.
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Oil colour alone tells you very little. It's an unreliable indicator of anything, actually.
+1
However, there's a huge difference between black-looking oil with 2k miles on it and black oil with 7k miles on it. My old STI used to turn oil dark very quickly; however, the opacity changed as the miles got on. 7k-mile-old oil looked pretty gross and indicated pretty much depleted in UOA.
Reads like a fairly definite -1 to me.
I've got no such experience, but I'd say oil colour is a pretty good indication of oil colour, and it has to be caused by something.
Nope. Key word is color. Opacity, smell and other properties can tell a partial tale. While an UOA is the only definitive method of analysis, visually apparent characteristics are not completely worthless.
Like I said, the oil in my STI would look very dark, but clear and cleanish-looking after only a few thousand miles. At 7k, the oil would be less visually transparent, its characteristics would change on a piece of paper towel while checking the dipstick and its smell would even tell me it was used up.
More blow-by with PP, better combustion chamber sealing with ML.
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Oil colour alone tells you very little. It's an unreliable indicator of anything, actually.
+1
However, there's a huge difference between black-looking oil with 2k miles on it and black oil with 7k miles on it. My old STI used to turn oil dark very quickly; however, the opacity changed as the miles got on. 7k-mile-old oil looked pretty gross and indicated pretty much depleted in UOA.
Reads like a fairly definite -1 to me.
I've got no such experience, but I'd say oil colour is a pretty good indication of oil colour, and it has to be caused by something.
Nope. Key word is color. Opacity, smell and other properties can tell a partial tale. While an UOA is the only definitive method of analysis, visually apparent characteristics are not completely worthless.
Like I said, the oil in my STI would look very dark, but clear and cleanish-looking after only a few thousand miles. At 7k, the oil would be less visually transparent, its characteristics would change on a piece of paper towel while checking the dipstick and its smell would even tell me it was used up.
ok, I wasn't accounting for the distinction between colour and opacity/turbidity, a real distinction, but perhaps a bit tricky to make in practice.
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Oil colour alone tells you very little. It's an unreliable indicator of anything, actually.
+1
However, there's a huge difference between black-looking oil with 2k miles on it and black oil with 7k miles on it. My old STI used to turn oil dark very quickly; however, the opacity changed as the miles got on. 7k-mile-old oil looked pretty gross and indicated pretty much depleted in UOA.
Reads like a fairly definite -1 to me.
I've got no such experience, but I'd say oil colour is a pretty good indication of oil colour, and it has to be caused by something.
Nope. Key word is color. Opacity, smell and other properties can tell a partial tale. While an UOA is the only definitive method of analysis, visually apparent characteristics are not completely worthless.
Like I said, the oil in my STI would look very dark, but clear and cleanish-looking after only a few thousand miles. At 7k, the oil would be less visually transparent, its characteristics would change on a piece of paper towel while checking the dipstick and its smell would even tell me it was used up.
ok, I wasn't accounting for the distinction between colour and opacity/turbidity, a real distinction, but perhaps a bit tricky to make in practice.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Not a liter or two, actually.
Maybe 500 CCs at the most.
I have a 4L sump and the dry fill capacity is 5L (per service manual). It is a V6 though, so maybe the extra head holds more oil. Either way, I rebuilt it and it did indeed take 5L for initial fill and 4L ever after. Depends on the engine but the oil simply does not just come clean off and leave bare metal to metal.
I say the reverse, 0.5L stuck to the engine after draining minimum.
Not a liter or two, actually.
Maybe 500 CCs at the most.
I have a 4L sump and the dry fill capacity is 5L (per service manual). It is a V6 though, so maybe the extra head holds more oil. Either way, I rebuilt it and it did indeed take 5L for initial fill and 4L ever after. Depends on the engine but the oil simply does not just come clean off and leave bare metal to metal.
I say the reverse, 0.5L stuck to the engine after draining minimum.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Not a liter or two, actually.
Maybe 500 CCs at the most.
Rebuild oil capacity is usually 1-1.5L above oil change capacity. If you have an air cooled oil cooler, that amount increases.
Not a liter or two, actually.
Maybe 500 CCs at the most.
Rebuild oil capacity is usually 1-1.5L above oil change capacity. If you have an air cooled oil cooler, that amount increases.
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Key word is color. Opacity, smell and other properties can tell a partial tale. While an UOA is the only definitive method of analysis, visually apparent characteristics are not completely worthless.
There's also how it feels when rubbed between the fingers.
I don't recommend doing that often.
However, in the '70s my brother had a (beater) van that cranked slow when hot.
I took a bit of oil from the dipstick and rubbed it.
It felt too thin and not slippery.
After an oil change the hot start issue went away.
Key word is color. Opacity, smell and other properties can tell a partial tale. While an UOA is the only definitive method of analysis, visually apparent characteristics are not completely worthless.
There's also how it feels when rubbed between the fingers.
I don't recommend doing that often.
However, in the '70s my brother had a (beater) van that cranked slow when hot.
I took a bit of oil from the dipstick and rubbed it.
It felt too thin and not slippery.
After an oil change the hot start issue went away.
Woah, this was something I haven't thought about. Hmmmmm
Originally Posted By: Speak2Mountain
Woah, this was something I haven't thought about. Hmmmmm
I've never quite bought into the theory that full synthetics have vastly superior cleaning ability than lesser group oils. Possibly to a slight degree with higher detergent levels to extend OCI but not enough to make it comparable to Bon Ami. With that, the only other logical conclusion I see is blow-by or an overly rich fuel mixture. Since ML has lessened this occurrence blow-by seems more likely.
Woah, this was something I haven't thought about. Hmmmmm
I've never quite bought into the theory that full synthetics have vastly superior cleaning ability than lesser group oils. Possibly to a slight degree with higher detergent levels to extend OCI but not enough to make it comparable to Bon Ami. With that, the only other logical conclusion I see is blow-by or an overly rich fuel mixture. Since ML has lessened this occurrence blow-by seems more likely.
When I bought my wifes 2014 V6 Sienna with 20K miles on the clock (rental) I change the oil with PU. It turned black immediately. I ran a 5K OCI then changed it again. It was a little less black on the next one. After 4-5 OCIs it came out the color of log cabin maple syrup (dark amber). I could see through the stream and it was not opaque just dark tinted. This van has a canister filter so I got to see what was inside the fins each time. The filter got cleaner as well (TOYOTA OEM)
Downgraded from PU to PP and ran 8-9K OCI and sold the van at 160K.
It might just need a few more cleaning cycles with PU.
Downgraded from PU to PP and ran 8-9K OCI and sold the van at 160K.
It might just need a few more cleaning cycles with PU.
It's always impressive to see an engine get cleaner oci by oci. Makes you wonder what happened before. I got my fusion with 31k, was a rental. First change with PYB got some bits of sludge out, next oci was M1 5w-20 and it came out dark. After that it is the dark Amber you describe at 7500k intervals.
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
It's always impressive to see an engine get cleaner oci by oci. Makes you wonder what happened before. I got my fusion with 31k, was a rental. First change with PYB got some bits of sludge out, next oci was M1 5w-20 and it came out dark. After that it is the dark Amber you describe at 7500k intervals.
Back in April, I had to put a junkyard engine in the pickup. Within 150 miles of being put in, after sitting for 3 years, it was towing 8000 pounds through the hills of PA on a 500 mile trip. After 700 or so miles, that oil was as black as diesel oil. It came out of a rotbox so it probably wasn't maintained. I'm now 2000 miles into the next OCI and it's starting to darken again. My guess is the current oil is still cleaning out stuff, though, not as quick since there isn't much left.
Pretty cool, though!
It's always impressive to see an engine get cleaner oci by oci. Makes you wonder what happened before. I got my fusion with 31k, was a rental. First change with PYB got some bits of sludge out, next oci was M1 5w-20 and it came out dark. After that it is the dark Amber you describe at 7500k intervals.
Back in April, I had to put a junkyard engine in the pickup. Within 150 miles of being put in, after sitting for 3 years, it was towing 8000 pounds through the hills of PA on a 500 mile trip. After 700 or so miles, that oil was as black as diesel oil. It came out of a rotbox so it probably wasn't maintained. I'm now 2000 miles into the next OCI and it's starting to darken again. My guess is the current oil is still cleaning out stuff, though, not as quick since there isn't much left.
Pretty cool, though!
I think different oil formulations will produce different results as far as color.
Years ago I purchased a huge stash of Pennzoil Ultra based upon the praise that it received on the forum. I used it for years and noticed absolutely no "cleaning" whatsoever.
The only thing I noticed was a ridiculous amount of oil burning.
Years ago I purchased a huge stash of Pennzoil Ultra based upon the praise that it received on the forum. I used it for years and noticed absolutely no "cleaning" whatsoever.
The only thing I noticed was a ridiculous amount of oil burning.
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