trust dipstick or manual for refill capacity??
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toyotas 1zz-fe engine from 1999-2003 had a service bulletin for a revised dipstick to allow an increase in oil capacity to match the dipsticks provided with cars newer than 2003.
this makes me wonder if the true oil capacity is higher than the book or dipstick allows before an overfill can cause damage
this makes me wonder if the true oil capacity is higher than the book or dipstick allows before an overfill can cause damage
I know everything under the sun has already been said in this surprisingly huge thread but I figured I'd throw in my few pennies as well (why not, right?)
Since most service shops raise the car on a lift and oil is drained with the oil pan flat, I can see the stated amount in the manual being correct. I've experimented with this and found that if I raise the front end on my Mazda 3, I can literally drain an additional 1/3 quart out of the pan! That's a huge amount of leftover used oil that remains in the bottom of the oil pan because of the idiotic design of the drain hole location. This makes a significant difference during oil top off and if I follow the manual after draining the extra oil out, I'm low on the dipstick. So the extra oil that is removed needs to be compensated.
Always think with your Dipstick, Jimmy.
I don't understand why this subject is even a subject. I mean, of course we use the manual to get an approximate ballpark of how much oil your engine takes. It would be silly to pour in one quart at a time and check the dipstick 4, 5, or 6+ times as you pour in each bottle. LOL. Obviously the manual tells you how much the engine takes during an oil change and you fine tune the level via the measuring device the manufacturer provided, whether it's the freakin dipstick or an electronic one.
Goodness gracious fellas. Was this a joke thread gone wild or something? I'm amazed by some of the responses of members blindly pouring in the stated amount and not even check the dipstick afterward to MAKE SURE you did a proper job.
Since most service shops raise the car on a lift and oil is drained with the oil pan flat, I can see the stated amount in the manual being correct. I've experimented with this and found that if I raise the front end on my Mazda 3, I can literally drain an additional 1/3 quart out of the pan! That's a huge amount of leftover used oil that remains in the bottom of the oil pan because of the idiotic design of the drain hole location. This makes a significant difference during oil top off and if I follow the manual after draining the extra oil out, I'm low on the dipstick. So the extra oil that is removed needs to be compensated.
Always think with your Dipstick, Jimmy.
I don't understand why this subject is even a subject. I mean, of course we use the manual to get an approximate ballpark of how much oil your engine takes. It would be silly to pour in one quart at a time and check the dipstick 4, 5, or 6+ times as you pour in each bottle. LOL. Obviously the manual tells you how much the engine takes during an oil change and you fine tune the level via the measuring device the manufacturer provided, whether it's the freakin dipstick or an electronic one.
Goodness gracious fellas. Was this a joke thread gone wild or something? I'm amazed by some of the responses of members blindly pouring in the stated amount and not even check the dipstick afterward to MAKE SURE you did a proper job.
Thanks for the sensibility Artem!
I will say it again, in my opinion, it is good practice to always check the oil level before and after an oil change. There is so much that can tell you. Where on the dipstick the level was before a drain cross-referenced to how much oil is drained. And of course the after, making sure you didnt pull the manual trans plug and fill the engine twice. Kill both the motor and transmission with one silly move.
Lucky for me, transmission fluid is red and it saved my car as it alerted me and may help mechanics at the lube shacks from making mistakes (or at least having the opportunity to not let them be costly ones).
I will say it again, in my opinion, it is good practice to always check the oil level before and after an oil change. There is so much that can tell you. Where on the dipstick the level was before a drain cross-referenced to how much oil is drained. And of course the after, making sure you didnt pull the manual trans plug and fill the engine twice. Kill both the motor and transmission with one silly move.
Lucky for me, transmission fluid is red and it saved my car as it alerted me and may help mechanics at the lube shacks from making mistakes (or at least having the opportunity to not let them be costly ones).
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Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Thanks for the sensibility Artem!
I will say it again, in my opinion, it is good practice to always check the oil level before and after an oil change. There is so much that can tell you. Where on the dipstick the level was before a drain cross-referenced to how much oil is drained. And of course the after, making sure you didnt pull the manual trans plug and fill the engine twice. Kill both the motor and transmission with one silly move.
Lucky for me, transmission fluid is red and it saved my car as it alerted me and may help mechanics at the lube shacks from making mistakes (or at least having the opportunity to not let them be costly ones).
I don't think anyone here is saying not to check the oil before or after an oil change. The topic is trust the "dipstick or the manual for refill capacity." As I mentioned I had a few vehicles over the years that had dipsticks that were off. So in order to get an accurate check after an oil change, or anytime for that matter you have to first determine the accuracy of the dipstick. IMO the easiest way to do that is get an OE filter and the amount of oil the owners manual calls for. Change the oil, let it drain for about an hour, install the filter, fill it with the amount stated in the owners manual, drive, park on level ground and check it the next morning. You can easily calibrate a 1 qt low situation as I mentioned earlier. Once the dipstick is dialed in you're golden, and you can trust the dipstick.
Thanks for the sensibility Artem!
I will say it again, in my opinion, it is good practice to always check the oil level before and after an oil change. There is so much that can tell you. Where on the dipstick the level was before a drain cross-referenced to how much oil is drained. And of course the after, making sure you didnt pull the manual trans plug and fill the engine twice. Kill both the motor and transmission with one silly move.
Lucky for me, transmission fluid is red and it saved my car as it alerted me and may help mechanics at the lube shacks from making mistakes (or at least having the opportunity to not let them be costly ones).
I don't think anyone here is saying not to check the oil before or after an oil change. The topic is trust the "dipstick or the manual for refill capacity." As I mentioned I had a few vehicles over the years that had dipsticks that were off. So in order to get an accurate check after an oil change, or anytime for that matter you have to first determine the accuracy of the dipstick. IMO the easiest way to do that is get an OE filter and the amount of oil the owners manual calls for. Change the oil, let it drain for about an hour, install the filter, fill it with the amount stated in the owners manual, drive, park on level ground and check it the next morning. You can easily calibrate a 1 qt low situation as I mentioned earlier. Once the dipstick is dialed in you're golden, and you can trust the dipstick.
Whichever has the higher level on the dipstick....i.e. fill with spec'd amount and add to the "F" level if not there yet....I would not put in less than the spec'd amount.
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Originally Posted By: KitaCam
Whichever has the higher level on the dipstick....i.e. fill with spec'd amount and add to the "F" level if not there yet....I would not put in less than the spec'd amount.
Agreed, unless someone messed up with the dipstick. Also, you need to make sure that you have the right fill specs.
If it appears way overfilled, there is probably something wrong. Mine appears slightly overfilled.
Whichever has the higher level on the dipstick....i.e. fill with spec'd amount and add to the "F" level if not there yet....I would not put in less than the spec'd amount.
Agreed, unless someone messed up with the dipstick. Also, you need to make sure that you have the right fill specs.
If it appears way overfilled, there is probably something wrong. Mine appears slightly overfilled.
The dipstick in my Maxima is a joke. Oil is usually half way up the dipstick unless it's been sitting for a day on completely level ground.
Patman
Staff member
I have never really trusted the dipstick, in my old 98 Corvette the dipstick would show the level to be full but when I drained the oil and measured what came out, it was down one quart! So ever since then I have ignored the dipstick and just added the proper amount of oil according to the manual (even going slightly over on some engines that I know can handle it) Whenever I do an oil change I always measure what comes out and that tells me the exact consumption of that engine so I know how much oil to use for topping up on the next interval, without consulting the untrustworthy dipstick. I really love the electronic dipstick in my wife's BMW! I wish all cars had them.
The G37 is fine. The Audi was okay, if on level ground. The F-150 has its horrible moments, as did the LTD, when it came to using the stupid dipsticks.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Thanks for the sensibility Artem!
I will say it again, in my opinion, it is good practice to always check the oil level before and after an oil change. There is so much that can tell you. Where on the dipstick the level was before a drain cross-referenced to how much oil is drained. And of course the after, making sure you didnt pull the manual trans plug and fill the engine twice. Kill both the motor and transmission with one silly move.
Lucky for me, transmission fluid is red and it saved my car as it alerted me and may help mechanics at the lube shacks from making mistakes (or at least having the opportunity to not let them be costly ones).
I don't think anyone here is saying not to check the oil before or after an oil change. The topic is trust the "dipstick or the manual for refill capacity." As I mentioned I had a few vehicles over the years that had dipsticks that were off. So in order to get an accurate check after an oil change, or anytime for that matter you have to first determine the accuracy of the dipstick. IMO the easiest way to do that is get an OE filter and the amount of oil the owners manual calls for. Change the oil, let it drain for about an hour, install the filter, fill it with the amount stated in the owners manual, drive, park on level ground and check it the next morning. You can easily calibrate a 1 qt low situation as I mentioned earlier. Once the dipstick is dialed in you're golden, and you can trust the dipstick.
The manual for my car states 5.4 litres for engine plus filter 6.3 for dry engine. Where in the 0.9 lurking?? So how do you check the accuracy of your dipstick unless you start from a dry engine? By the way, oil expands when hot and my handbook states to check the level when hot.
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Thanks for the sensibility Artem!
I will say it again, in my opinion, it is good practice to always check the oil level before and after an oil change. There is so much that can tell you. Where on the dipstick the level was before a drain cross-referenced to how much oil is drained. And of course the after, making sure you didnt pull the manual trans plug and fill the engine twice. Kill both the motor and transmission with one silly move.
Lucky for me, transmission fluid is red and it saved my car as it alerted me and may help mechanics at the lube shacks from making mistakes (or at least having the opportunity to not let them be costly ones).
I don't think anyone here is saying not to check the oil before or after an oil change. The topic is trust the "dipstick or the manual for refill capacity." As I mentioned I had a few vehicles over the years that had dipsticks that were off. So in order to get an accurate check after an oil change, or anytime for that matter you have to first determine the accuracy of the dipstick. IMO the easiest way to do that is get an OE filter and the amount of oil the owners manual calls for. Change the oil, let it drain for about an hour, install the filter, fill it with the amount stated in the owners manual, drive, park on level ground and check it the next morning. You can easily calibrate a 1 qt low situation as I mentioned earlier. Once the dipstick is dialed in you're golden, and you can trust the dipstick.
The manual for my car states 5.4 litres for engine plus filter 6.3 for dry engine. Where in the 0.9 lurking?? So how do you check the accuracy of your dipstick unless you start from a dry engine? By the way, oil expands when hot and my handbook states to check the level when hot.
On GE FDL engines, all you have to do is find a crank journal BDC and fill it until it just touches. You will be spot on when warmed up and running.
Originally Posted By: phrustrated
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Thanks for the sensibility Artem!
I will say it again, in my opinion, it is good practice to always check the oil level before and after an oil change. There is so much that can tell you. Where on the dipstick the level was before a drain cross-referenced to how much oil is drained. And of course the after, making sure you didnt pull the manual trans plug and fill the engine twice. Kill both the motor and transmission with one silly move.
Lucky for me, transmission fluid is red and it saved my car as it alerted me and may help mechanics at the lube shacks from making mistakes (or at least having the opportunity to not let them be costly ones).
I don't think anyone here is saying not to check the oil before or after an oil change. The topic is trust the "dipstick or the manual for refill capacity." As I mentioned I had a few vehicles over the years that had dipsticks that were off. So in order to get an accurate check after an oil change, or anytime for that matter you have to first determine the accuracy of the dipstick. IMO the easiest way to do that is get an OE filter and the amount of oil the owners manual calls for. Change the oil, let it drain for about an hour, install the filter, fill it with the amount stated in the owners manual, drive, park on level ground and check it the next morning. You can easily calibrate a 1 qt low situation as I mentioned earlier. Once the dipstick is dialed in you're golden, and you can trust the dipstick.
The manual for my car states 5.4 litres for engine plus filter 6.3 for dry engine. Where in the 0.9 lurking?? So how do you check the accuracy of your dipstick unless you start from a dry engine? By the way, oil expands when hot and my handbook states to check the level when hot.
I could have added that the reason to check levels when hot is to avoid overfilling. Overfilling can mean engine parts stir up the oil surface in the sump & cause frothing leading to a form of oil starvation when the frothy oil gets pumped.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Thanks for the sensibility Artem!
I will say it again, in my opinion, it is good practice to always check the oil level before and after an oil change. There is so much that can tell you. Where on the dipstick the level was before a drain cross-referenced to how much oil is drained. And of course the after, making sure you didnt pull the manual trans plug and fill the engine twice. Kill both the motor and transmission with one silly move.
Lucky for me, transmission fluid is red and it saved my car as it alerted me and may help mechanics at the lube shacks from making mistakes (or at least having the opportunity to not let them be costly ones).
I don't think anyone here is saying not to check the oil before or after an oil change. The topic is trust the "dipstick or the manual for refill capacity." As I mentioned I had a few vehicles over the years that had dipsticks that were off. So in order to get an accurate check after an oil change, or anytime for that matter you have to first determine the accuracy of the dipstick. IMO the easiest way to do that is get an OE filter and the amount of oil the owners manual calls for. Change the oil, let it drain for about an hour, install the filter, fill it with the amount stated in the owners manual, drive, park on level ground and check it the next morning. You can easily calibrate a 1 qt low situation as I mentioned earlier. Once the dipstick is dialed in you're golden, and you can trust the dipstick.
The manual for my car states 5.4 litres for engine plus filter 6.3 for dry engine. Where in the 0.9 lurking?? So how do you check the accuracy of your dipstick unless you start from a dry engine? By the way, oil expands when hot and my handbook states to check the level when hot.
I could have added that the reason to check levels when hot is to avoid overfilling. Overfilling can mean engine parts stir up the oil surface in the sump & cause frothing leading to a form of oil starvation when the frothy oil gets pumped.
The manual often states Approximate refill capacity. Finally at the end of most manuals is a statement that the manufactures is not libel for errors and the manual maybe updated at any time without notification. 
) The information stated above suggest that neither the dip stick nor the manual is an absolute. Ed
) The information stated above suggest that neither the dip stick nor the manual is an absolute. EdPreviously (see post #4492335 - 08/18/17 09:46 PM) I stated "The manual for my car states 5.4 litres for engine plus filter 6.3 for dry engine. Where in the 0.9 lurking?? So how do you check the accuracy of your dipstick unless you start from a dry engine? "
Sorry for my confusion and any confusion I may have caused others. The manual said "dry FILL" not "dry ENGINE". I now realise that the term "dry" means dry EMPTY SPACE so when 5.4 litres of oil is added after draining there is still 0.9 litres of "dry" i.e. air space DOH.
Dipsticks can be a real pain. My present and previous cars have those flat bendy ones. You have to be careful the tip does not splash into the oil which can give a false reading. Not only that, you have to be careful which side you read as each side differs as oil must get up inside the tube and gets over one side up to 5cm from the tip. Goodness knows what angle the stick goes into the oil after the bend which means a rise of oil surface due to hot oil expansion might be 3mm but that will show as perhaps 5mm along the stick.
Sorry for my confusion and any confusion I may have caused others. The manual said "dry FILL" not "dry ENGINE". I now realise that the term "dry" means dry EMPTY SPACE so when 5.4 litres of oil is added after draining there is still 0.9 litres of "dry" i.e. air space DOH.
Dipsticks can be a real pain. My present and previous cars have those flat bendy ones. You have to be careful the tip does not splash into the oil which can give a false reading. Not only that, you have to be careful which side you read as each side differs as oil must get up inside the tube and gets over one side up to 5cm from the tip. Goodness knows what angle the stick goes into the oil after the bend which means a rise of oil surface due to hot oil expansion might be 3mm but that will show as perhaps 5mm along the stick.
If you don't trust your dipstick when do you really know when to add short of draining the engine and measuring what you have? Maybe you need to get one of those after market dipsticks with bearings that are adjustable.
If I can't read the precise level, I fall back on the little holes they drill for max and min. If oil is in the min hole, there is enough
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
If I can't read the precise level, I fall back on the little holes they drill for max and min. If oil is in the min hole, there is enough
Thanks. That is what I actually try to do but there is always a bit of doubt with very thin oW-20 which is ... is the oil in the min hole from some that got on the other side of the stick from running down from the dipstick hole.
"Just because you are paranoid it doesn't mean they are not out to get you"
If I can't read the precise level, I fall back on the little holes they drill for max and min. If oil is in the min hole, there is enough
Thanks. That is what I actually try to do but there is always a bit of doubt with very thin oW-20 which is ... is the oil in the min hole from some that got on the other side of the stick from running down from the dipstick hole.
"Just because you are paranoid it doesn't mean they are not out to get you"
Most manuals state that the capacities can vary. I know in both my GM vehicles it states that. I usually put 1/2 less than what is stated and top off until I am at the full mark. Never had an issue
When I had a Honda C50 stepthrough, it took 500ml of oil, cast into the crankcase. When I put the correct amount in, it had trouble climbing up my drive in the morning, I had to paddle it up to the road. If I filled it to the dipstick, it would go up my drive no trouble, and no paddling. The oil was dragging on the crankshaft and cutting what little power it had. This was with BP Visco 5000, a synthetic at the time.
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