Pentastar Engine

[L_Sludger]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Among modern peer engines it is fairly ordinary output. However, in engineering terms, compared to the horribly gutless 3.8 V6 it replaced, it is outstanding.


Aside from VQ, which ones are they from the likes of Honda, Toyota or Ford? Once you move to the premium segment, I agree, they are all similar, but in the economy segment where regular unleaded is a requirement, it's pretty much on top as far as HP and TQ goes.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-toyota-sienna-first-drive-review
This year's Toyota Sienna has 296hp from its 3.5L V6 and it does it with regular fuel.
Honda's 2017 minivan's engine has 290hp in MDX form. Not sure what it would be in the minivan.

Anyhow - the Pentastar has excellent power output, and it led its class for a while, but this year it has become a peer to competitors.

 

[KrisZ]

The new Sienna engine is direct injected and the one on MDX uses premium.

 

[L_Sludger]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
The new Sienna engine is direct injected and the one on MDX uses premium.
Is DI something that you consider a crutch or handicap for comparison's sake?
The 2017 Honda Pilot, which uses the same engine as the Honda Odyssey, has 280 horsepower on 87 octane unleaded fuel. Yes, its also direct injected.

 

[KrisZ]

One of the positives of the DI technology is that it increases HP while maintaining fuel economy, or if you keep the same HP, it will improve fuel economy out of the same displacement engine but with PFI.
That is why you cannot compare the two.
Once the pentastar engine family is updated with DI, and it will be soon as it was designed with this in mind (it was also design for forced induction) we can have a proper apple to apple comparison, but as it stands right now, if you compare it to similar PFI engines, it's a top contender.

 

[L_Sludger]

Sounds good Kris;
I look forward to seeing the evolution of the Pentastar as well.

 

[meep]

A good friend and coworker here has 37s on a 3.6 pentastar 4-door. He gets around just fine, though 6th gear is pointless with the stock gearing. Lo-range does just fine off road. With roof rack, rear carrier, rock guards and aftermarket bumpers + winch, the vehicle is heavy. 80k miles and the engine doesn't lose any oil or fuss. Sure, it doesn't accelerate well, but there's more to life than acceleration. To my knowledge, he's had zero problems with it, none. Toyota/honda reliability to date, and his gets used off highway often. I think it is fiatsler's best offering.

 

[CrAlt]

Originally Posted By: babyivan

The pentastar is a solid engine. Its reliable, but boring. The Wrangler though, I think it's mostly the gearing that holds back the pentastar. I test drove a Sahara, felt gutless. I bet if I would have test drove a Rubicon, I would be telling a different story. The only one with better stock gears. I remember the salesman telling me that swapping rear end gears is easy to do. Not a big fan of modifying a brand new truck, nor do I think I should need to.


So just order it with the right gears. You can get any trim wrangler in 3.73's or 4.10s. Rubicon comes standard with 410s in the manual. A deeper transfer case low ratio also.
The default on the Sports is 3.21's. Even with the base 29" wheels it makes for a slug off the line and it just doesn't work with the pentastar's power curve.

 

[babyivan]

Originally Posted By: CrAlt
Originally Posted By: babyivan

The pentastar is a solid engine. Its reliable, but boring. The Wrangler though, I think it's mostly the gearing that holds back the pentastar. I test drove a Sahara, felt gutless. I bet if I would have test drove a Rubicon, I would be telling a different story. The only one with better stock gears. I remember the salesman telling me that swapping rear end gears is easy to do. Not a big fan of modifying a brand new truck, nor do I think I should need to.


So just order it with the right gears. You can get any trim wrangler in 3.73's or 4.10s. Rubicon comes standard with 410s in the manual. A deeper transfer case low ratio also.
The default on the Sports is 3.21's. Even with the base 29" wheels it makes for a slug off the line and it just doesn't work with the pentastar's power curve.
You cannot get any model you want with the 4.10s. Not sure about the 3.73s.

 

[CrAlt]

Originally Posted By: babyivan
Originally Posted By: CrAlt
Originally Posted By: babyivan

The pentastar is a solid engine. Its reliable, but boring. The Wrangler though, I think it's mostly the gearing that holds back the pentastar. I test drove a Sahara, felt gutless. I bet if I would have test drove a Rubicon, I would be telling a different story. The only one with better stock gears. I remember the salesman telling me that swapping rear end gears is easy to do. Not a big fan of modifying a brand new truck, nor do I think I should need to.


So just order it with the right gears. You can get any trim wrangler in 3.73's or 4.10s. Rubicon comes standard with 410s in the manual. A deeper transfer case low ratio also.
The default on the Sports is 3.21's. Even with the base 29" wheels it makes for a slug off the line and it just doesn't work with the pentastar's power curve.
You cannot get any you want with the model with the 4.10s


Yes you are right. My bad.
Sport limits you at 3.73. But even 3.73's give you just enough of a bump to get you in to the Pentastar's powerband right off the line.
321's VS 3.73's or 4.10s. It doesn't even feel like the same motor.

Maybe dealers are ordering their lot stock with 3.21's to help upsell to the higher trims?

"WOW this Rubicon has so much more POWER!"

 

[HouseTiger]

Thanx for all the feedback. Have been eyeing the Rubicon because of its 'standard' drivetrain package. Not a rock crawler like the 78 CJ was, but still will be going off road regularly.

 

[babyivan]

Originally Posted By: HouseTiger
Thanx for all the feedback. Have been eyeing the Rubicon because of its 'standard' drivetrain package. Not a rock crawler like the 78 CJ was, but still will be going off road regularly.

The Rubicon is definitely the way to go if you can afford it, they are pretty pricey. But you get all of the goodies.... including the steel bumper, my favorite touch.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: babyivan
Originally Posted By: AVB
The 3.6 is a dog in a Wrangler compared to anything else it is put in. Some of that may be the transmission used in Wranglers but the engine is severely detuned.


I test drove a 2017 6 speed 2dr and I can attest to this..... the 'oomph' wasnt there. My buddies stock 98 wrangler felt faster to me.


I have a 16 JK Rubicon with the 4.10 rear and an automatic, it has plenty of power and has been flawless. With stock 3.21 it might lack a little oomph, that's not the case with 3.73 or the 4.10. Most people who test drive a Sport don't even know what gears they have in them, and odds are its 3.21.

 

[HouseTiger]

The Rubicon is definitely the way to go if you can afford it, they are pretty pricey. But you get all of the goodies.... including the steel bumper, my favorite touch.[/quote]

That's the model I've been looking at. By the time you add the 'options' to a Wrangler Sport or regular Wrangler, you could get the Rubicon. It also comes standard with the top end Dana axles and better gearing. Had pretty decent luck over the years finding garage queens, so I figure a 2015-2016 low mileage from some soccer mom might be a way to go.

 

[babyivan]

Originally Posted By: HouseTiger


That's the model I've been looking at. By the time you add the 'options' to a Wrangler Sport or regular Wrangler, you could get the Rubicon. It also comes standard with the top end Dana axles and better gearing. Had pretty decent luck over the years finding garage queens, so I figure a 2015-2016 low mileage from some soccer mom might be a way to go.




Honestly, you're almost better off buying new with a Wrangler. They hold their value so well. That's why I bought my WRX new, as they also hold value extremely well. Looking at used ones and they were only 2 grand less even with 15,000 miles.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: babyivan
Originally Posted By: AVB
The 3.6 is a dog in a Wrangler compared to anything else it is put in. Some of that may be the transmission used in Wranglers but the engine is severely detuned.


I test drove a 2017 6 speed 2dr and I can attest to this..... the 'oomph' wasnt there. My buddies stock 98 wrangler felt faster to me.


I have a 16 JK Rubicon with the 4.10 rear and an automatic, it has plenty of power and has been flawless. With stock 3.21 it might lack a little oomph, that's not the case with 3.73 or the 4.10. Most people who test drive a Sport don't even know what gears they have in them, and odds are its 3.21.


I've driven a few JKs - The Pentastar "base" 6 speed I drove had loads more power on 32'' tires and 3.21 gears than the Rubicon 2008 6 speed with 4.10 gears and 32'' tires we used to have. I'm sure there was an extra 100 pounds on the rubicon, but the Pentastar engine is just in a different league. Variable valve timing is a great thing!