Pump 12 gauge opinions

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The most abused guns I ever saw in my life were Remington 870 Expresses. They were still operational. I was working for a Blasting company that de-slagged boilers with explosives, and shotguns.

I couldn't believe my eyes. It looked like they had been dropped a thousand times, on steel grating. I keep Firearms clean and don't drop them. They said the barrels had never been cleaned. It bothered me, I offered to clean them. They didn't care.

As a young marine, 20 years ago, I was on the USS Constellation. The Marine Armory on the ship had defender style shotguns. They were Mossberg.

I think the Browning BPS is a sound design and reliable. Perfect gun to sit in the rain and snow with; no side ejection port for water to easily get into your action and receiver. Sure the BPS can get water in the receiver, but only if you hold it upside down. It makes for a much easier cleaning job after hunting in weather. I like the BPS, it's been around since 1977, but Remington 870 is undeniably: The Legend
 
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There's nothing wrong with hunting squirrel with #6 shot 12 ga. In fact, it's more practical when the woods is still green and thick with foliage.

I have never owned a Mossberg. I always wanted Remingtons. I would not be afraid of a BPS. I have browning BPS fully rifled cantilever 20 gauge. It kills deer just as fast as a 12 gauge. It shoots basically the same size and weight projectile as a 50 Cal muzzleloader sabot round.

I never understood why Mossberg only used one action bar on the 600. I fully understand that the 500 has dual action bars. And I will say this for Mossberg: I've heard countless people tell me that their Mossberg fully rifled cantilever deer shotguns are amazingly accurate. And they are made in the USA.

The Browning is made in Japan but don't let that scare you because Japan has a reputation for a high quality control, and ultimately, quality products. If you have a rifle scope made in Japan you have a good scope.

If money is no object I would recommend an auto loading shotgun if he's going to use it as a slug gun for deer. I firmly believe if you use Optics the cantilever system is superior, with the exception of Ithaca deerslayer. Recoil is much less from a gas operated autoloader. Remington 1100 or 1187 is the best.
 
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870

in 30 years of owning one (in over 44 years of shooting) I never had, nor know anyone that ever has had a single failure.

Aftermarket goodies abound.

Its the small block chevy of shotguns.

UD
 
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My vote goes for the Winchester 1200 pump.
Remington's are too tight, too fussy. I was once hunting with a guy that was a friend of a friend and he was bragging up his 870. I challenged him to let's drop them in the mud. Pack the action with mud and dirt first one to get off 3 shots gets $20 bucks and bragging rights. He wouldn't do it, but he did shut up.
I am pretty sure my Winchester would have done it. Kinda wished he would have accepted and the deal is still good if I ever hunt with you guys.
 
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
870

in 30 years of owning one (in over 44 years of shooting) I never had, nor know anyone that ever has had a single failure.

Aftermarket goodies abound.

Its the small block chevy of shotguns.

UD


I saw two newer (freedom group made) fail in the opening weekend of the South Dakota pheasant season in 2008 or 2009 ( I don't recall which year). They seized up tight. We had to bounce them hard off the ground to break them open. They were dry and once we drowned them with rem oil, they ran okay again.

I think the 870 design is pretty sound...I am just not sure of the execution of it these days. I have a early Wingmaster passed down to me by my grandpa, although a well used farmers gun, that thing is sound and smooth.
 
If your choice is the 870, be sure to go with either the Police, or the Wingmaster. Not the Express. They will cost more, (depending on model, close to double what the Express models sell for). But the Police and the Wingmaster are much better guns, that receive better attention in assembly, and a much higher degree of fit and finish. The actions are far smoother, because they have had more steps taken to deburr and polish mating parts.

Also, the extractor on the Police and Wingmaster models is machined. Where as the Express Model 870 extractors are MIM. This, I don't think is cause for any concern today, as MIM quality has come a long way in the last decade. But when the Express was first introduced, there were reports of extractors failing. I doubt this is the case any longer.

On the Mossberg as was mentioned, go with the 590 A-1 Model if at all possible. It is the military version that has the heavy walled barrel. It also has a metal trigger group, (500's are plastic), along with a metal safety lever. I own both. And while there is nothing "wrong" with the 500 per say, once you examine, handle, and shoot both it's easy to come to the conclusion the 590 A-1 is the better gun. And as is usually the case, the 590 A-1 costs more. The Maverick 88 is simply a cheaper grade of the Mossberg 500, and is at the lower end of the Mossberg spectrum.

If you are going to choose between a Browning BPS or a Ithaca Model 37, I would go with the Browning. Both are well made, all steel, bottom eject shotguns. But the problem with the Model 37 was, and still is the fact the magazine tube is manufactured with too small of an I.D. This can cause shells to hang up in the magazine tube. Especially reloads that have seen any resizing operation done to the hulls. (It will expand the O.D. of the rim just enough to cause issues). The only way this can be cleared is by disassembling the weapon. Not something you want to be doing in a self defense shooting situation. Most of the time the Model 37 will function O.K. with factory ammunition, and this condition will not occur. But why take a chance, when you can get what amounts to basically the same gun without the undersize magazine tube from Browning for less money? I have no idea why Ithaca designed the gun this way, and refused to correct it over the years, after constant complaints about it.

The only solution is to have a gunsmith hone out the magazine tube .003 to .005 larger. Or if you feel you just have to have a Model 37 for self defense, you can do it yourself with one of those spring loaded automotive brake cylinder hones, and a portable electric or cordless drill. You will have to fabricate some type of extension on the end of the hone, to allow it to reach completely through the tube from one end to the other. I just used a piece of 1/4" threaded rod I wrapped with electrical tape to prevent it from scratching the inside of the tube, and some heat shrink tubing I had laying around. It worked well, And I just cut the tubing off when I was done.
 
It's true that Remington's quality has suffered. Anything prior to 2007 maybe?; Is good. I would prefer late 70's to around 2000 myself.

The Winchester 1300 made in Connecticut is a good pump, but the new pumps made in Turkey will never get my hard earned $.

If you want something new, made today; I recommend Browning BPS.
 
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