It's strange because Fram uses metal end caps with the canister filters. The reason given here on this site was because it was necessary due to the wire mesh. They could use metal end caps for the cartridge, other companies do. It could be someone in charge wanted to be more "green."
Fram Ultra Synthetic Cartridge Problem
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Originally Posted By: goodtimes
It's strange because Fram uses metal end caps with the canister filters. The reason given here on this site was because it was necessary due to the wire mesh. They could use metal end caps for the cartridge, other companies do. It could be someone in charge wanted to be more "green."
Could be. I wonder if it's really an issue of metal -vs- plastic... or flat -vs- cupped. The Purolator synthetic (for example) uses plastic end-caps as well, but they cup the ends allowing for a deeper glue bond that I'd have to imagine would result in a stronger overall structure. The TRD/Amsoil (made by Champion?) filter uses metal that's cupped. The WIX XP synthetic uses flat plastic like the Fram, but they're far less efficient... so one could assume the pressures subjected across the media would be lower compared to the Fram - resulting in less stress on the structure and less chance of separation. But who knows for sure.
The TRD filter had poor quality control in my opinion... all of the ones the dealer had horrible gluing, bad seams, uneven pleat spacing, etc. The Purolator is rather expensive. And the WIX XP is expensive AND has horrible efficiency (50% at 20micron... the stock Toyota filter matches this for $4). Fram Ultra easily is the best price & efficiency filter you can buy, but if they apparently can't get the center diameter correct... coupled with questionable structural strength with the end-caps... then it's not worth the risk to me. I've used Austrian made Mahle cartridges in my previous Euro vehicles with nothing but success... so that's why I picked it.
It's strange because Fram uses metal end caps with the canister filters. The reason given here on this site was because it was necessary due to the wire mesh. They could use metal end caps for the cartridge, other companies do. It could be someone in charge wanted to be more "green."
Could be. I wonder if it's really an issue of metal -vs- plastic... or flat -vs- cupped. The Purolator synthetic (for example) uses plastic end-caps as well, but they cup the ends allowing for a deeper glue bond that I'd have to imagine would result in a stronger overall structure. The TRD/Amsoil (made by Champion?) filter uses metal that's cupped. The WIX XP synthetic uses flat plastic like the Fram, but they're far less efficient... so one could assume the pressures subjected across the media would be lower compared to the Fram - resulting in less stress on the structure and less chance of separation. But who knows for sure.
The TRD filter had poor quality control in my opinion... all of the ones the dealer had horrible gluing, bad seams, uneven pleat spacing, etc. The Purolator is rather expensive. And the WIX XP is expensive AND has horrible efficiency (50% at 20micron... the stock Toyota filter matches this for $4). Fram Ultra easily is the best price & efficiency filter you can buy, but if they apparently can't get the center diameter correct... coupled with questionable structural strength with the end-caps... then it's not worth the risk to me. I've used Austrian made Mahle cartridges in my previous Euro vehicles with nothing but success... so that's why I picked it.
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
It's strange because Fram uses metal end caps with the canister filters. The reason given here on this site was because it was necessary due to the wire mesh. They could use metal end caps for the cartridge, other companies do. It could be someone in charge wanted to be more "green."
Could be. I wonder if it's really an issue of metal -vs- plastic... or flat -vs- cupped. The Purolator synthetic (for example) uses plastic end-caps as well, but they cup the ends allowing for a deeper glue bond that I'd have to imagine would result in a stronger overall structure. The TRD/Amsoil (made by Champion?) filter uses metal that's cupped. The WIX XP synthetic uses flat plastic like the Fram, but they're far less efficient... so one could assume the pressures subjected across the media would be lower compared to the Fram - resulting in less stress on the structure and less chance of separation. But who knows for sure.
The TRD filter had poor quality control in my opinion... all of the ones the dealer had horrible gluing, bad seams, uneven pleat spacing, etc. The Purolator is rather expensive. And the WIX XP is expensive AND has horrible efficiency (50% at 20micron... the stock Toyota filter matches this for $4). Fram Ultra easily is the best price & efficiency filter you can buy, but if they apparently can't get the center diameter correct... coupled with questionable structural strength with the end-caps... then it's not worth the risk to me. I've used Austrian made Mahle cartridges in my previous Euro vehicles with nothing but success... so that's why I picked it.
I dissected the first one after use and found the end caps to be very secure. I remember having to use quite a bit of force to get the end caps to separate from the wire mesh. I just did another oil change so I'll do the same to that filter and report back.
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
It's strange because Fram uses metal end caps with the canister filters. The reason given here on this site was because it was necessary due to the wire mesh. They could use metal end caps for the cartridge, other companies do. It could be someone in charge wanted to be more "green."
Could be. I wonder if it's really an issue of metal -vs- plastic... or flat -vs- cupped. The Purolator synthetic (for example) uses plastic end-caps as well, but they cup the ends allowing for a deeper glue bond that I'd have to imagine would result in a stronger overall structure. The TRD/Amsoil (made by Champion?) filter uses metal that's cupped. The WIX XP synthetic uses flat plastic like the Fram, but they're far less efficient... so one could assume the pressures subjected across the media would be lower compared to the Fram - resulting in less stress on the structure and less chance of separation. But who knows for sure.
The TRD filter had poor quality control in my opinion... all of the ones the dealer had horrible gluing, bad seams, uneven pleat spacing, etc. The Purolator is rather expensive. And the WIX XP is expensive AND has horrible efficiency (50% at 20micron... the stock Toyota filter matches this for $4). Fram Ultra easily is the best price & efficiency filter you can buy, but if they apparently can't get the center diameter correct... coupled with questionable structural strength with the end-caps... then it's not worth the risk to me. I've used Austrian made Mahle cartridges in my previous Euro vehicles with nothing but success... so that's why I picked it.
I dissected the first one after use and found the end caps to be very secure. I remember having to use quite a bit of force to get the end caps to separate from the wire mesh. I just did another oil change so I'll do the same to that filter and report back.
Originally Posted By: funflyer
... I just did another oil change so I'll do the same to that filter and report back.
Yes, please!
Any experience with other Fram or Purolator models for the same application? Shortly after buying my Prius in 2014, I bought three Purolator L16311 "Classic" filters that were on sale at irresistible prices. I haven't used any of them yet, but am having doubts, because of the problems with spin-on Purolators of similar vintage (i.e., made in 2012). No defects are obvious on these I have; they appear reasonably well constructed.
... I just did another oil change so I'll do the same to that filter and report back.
Yes, please!
Any experience with other Fram or Purolator models for the same application? Shortly after buying my Prius in 2014, I bought three Purolator L16311 "Classic" filters that were on sale at irresistible prices. I haven't used any of them yet, but am having doubts, because of the problems with spin-on Purolators of similar vintage (i.e., made in 2012). No defects are obvious on these I have; they appear reasonably well constructed.
Here's about as unscientific a test as I could do but it gives an idea of the how strong the Ultra cartridge is. This filter was removed at 8,000 miles. Using a washer against the inside of one of the end caps and a pair of pliers on the other, it lifted a 28 pound cinder block without the slightest hint of end cap separation. I picked it up several times and held it suspended for over a minute and even jarred it a few times to see if maybe it was close to an end cap popping loose but it held strong.
DENSO
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
DENSO
Please stop being a troll. If you have nothing of value to contribute - please don't.
Originally Posted By: WillsYoda
How Fram fixed this sizing issue with the Fram XG10358 for the Toyota 1.8L (corolla and prius)? I was thinking of using one on my car, but I'm not sure if it will fit.
I haven't tested one since my first one, but I didn't have the fitment issue personally. Couldn't hurt to try one. If you source it locally and it doesn't fit, you should be able to return it.
DENSO
Please stop being a troll. If you have nothing of value to contribute - please don't.
Originally Posted By: WillsYoda
How Fram fixed this sizing issue with the Fram XG10358 for the Toyota 1.8L (corolla and prius)? I was thinking of using one on my car, but I'm not sure if it will fit.
I haven't tested one since my first one, but I didn't have the fitment issue personally. Couldn't hurt to try one. If you source it locally and it doesn't fit, you should be able to return it.
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
DENSO
Please stop being a troll. If you have nothing of value to contribute - please don't.
Originally Posted By: WillsYoda
How Fram fixed this sizing issue with the Fram XG10358 for the Toyota 1.8L (corolla and prius)? I was thinking of using one on my car, but I'm not sure if it will fit.
I haven't tested one since my first one, but I didn't have the fitment issue personally. Couldn't hurt to try one. If you source it locally and it doesn't fit, you should be able to return it.
They had one at my Wallyworld. I'll get one and let people know if it fit.
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
DENSO
Please stop being a troll. If you have nothing of value to contribute - please don't.
Originally Posted By: WillsYoda
How Fram fixed this sizing issue with the Fram XG10358 for the Toyota 1.8L (corolla and prius)? I was thinking of using one on my car, but I'm not sure if it will fit.
I haven't tested one since my first one, but I didn't have the fitment issue personally. Couldn't hurt to try one. If you source it locally and it doesn't fit, you should be able to return it.
They had one at my Wallyworld. I'll get one and let people know if it fit.
Originally Posted By: WillsYoda
They had one at my Wallyworld. I'll get one and let people know if it fit.
Right on. I look forward to the update!
They had one at my Wallyworld. I'll get one and let people know if it fit.
Right on. I look forward to the update!
Originally Posted By: WillsYoda
They had one at my Wallyworld. I'll get one and let people know if it fit.
Make sure the date code starts with 17. The new production filters are supposed to be within spec.
They had one at my Wallyworld. I'll get one and let people know if it fit.
Make sure the date code starts with 17. The new production filters are supposed to be within spec.
Originally Posted By: WillsYoda
They had one at my Wallyworld. I'll get one and let people know if it fit.
Good plan; thanks! Please also let us know how it looks like after use.
They had one at my Wallyworld. I'll get one and let people know if it fit.
Good plan; thanks! Please also let us know how it looks like after use.
Originally Posted By: funflyer
Originally Posted By: WillsYoda
They had one at my Wallyworld. I'll get one and let people know if it fit.
Make sure the date code starts with 17. The new production filters are supposed to be within spec.
Good idea. I'll check to make sure the first number is a 7. I think the first number is the year and the next three are the day of the year (365 being Dec 31).
Originally Posted By: WillsYoda
They had one at my Wallyworld. I'll get one and let people know if it fit.
Make sure the date code starts with 17. The new production filters are supposed to be within spec.
Good idea. I'll check to make sure the first number is a 7. I think the first number is the year and the next three are the day of the year (365 being Dec 31).
Originally Posted By: WillsYoda
... I think the first number is the year and the next three are the day of the year (365 being Dec 31).
So my Fram TG10358 that's marked "123964 Made in China" was made on the 396th day of 2012? Purchased at local Walmart in March of 2017.
... I think the first number is the year and the next three are the day of the year (365 being Dec 31).
So my Fram TG10358 that's marked "123964 Made in China" was made on the 396th day of 2012? Purchased at local Walmart in March of 2017.
Just an update on this. I decided to give the Ultra another go today, and during my change I found it dropped over the center tube no problem. So for anyone who was worried about it being too tight - definitely a non-issue for me (then again - I don't recall having an issue the first time around either). I didn't get the exact date code off the filter... but I can say with certainty it was a 2017 build as the first number was a 7.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
Just an update on this. I decided to give the Ultra another go today, and during my change I found it dropped over the center tube no problem. So for anyone who was worried about it being too tight - definitely a non-issue for me (then again - I don't recall having an issue the first time around either). I didn't get the exact date code off the filter... but I can say with certainty it was a 2017 build as the first number was a 7. ...
Thanks for the update! Coincidentally I looked at two Ultra 10358 cartridges in Walmart today. Both showed codes starting with "7." I didn't check the hole size. On both examples, the pleat spacing was very uneven, not only at the splice, but elsewhere as well. ?? What's with that? The Chinese TG10358s tend to have even spacing. I installed one of those recently.
Just an update on this. I decided to give the Ultra another go today, and during my change I found it dropped over the center tube no problem. So for anyone who was worried about it being too tight - definitely a non-issue for me (then again - I don't recall having an issue the first time around either). I didn't get the exact date code off the filter... but I can say with certainty it was a 2017 build as the first number was a 7. ...
Thanks for the update! Coincidentally I looked at two Ultra 10358 cartridges in Walmart today. Both showed codes starting with "7." I didn't check the hole size. On both examples, the pleat spacing was very uneven, not only at the splice, but elsewhere as well. ?? What's with that? The Chinese TG10358s tend to have even spacing. I installed one of those recently.
Did anyone respond to this complaint?
Respectfully,
Pajero!
Respectfully,
Pajero!
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
IMO it doesn't matter on the Fram Ultra if the pleats are wide and narrow. I cut one open the stainless steel mesh is very strong, nothing is going anywhere. So it makes no difference if they are wide in places.
I agree. Pleat spacing won't change the media surface area or the strength IMO. I pulled apart another Ultra 10358 a few weeks ago and, like all the others, it took two large channel lock pliers to do it.
IMO it doesn't matter on the Fram Ultra if the pleats are wide and narrow. I cut one open the stainless steel mesh is very strong, nothing is going anywhere. So it makes no difference if they are wide in places.
I agree. Pleat spacing won't change the media surface area or the strength IMO. I pulled apart another Ultra 10358 a few weeks ago and, like all the others, it took two large channel lock pliers to do it.
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