FL 500s FL820s FL 1A

[WellOiled]

Originally Posted By: merconvvv
hummm i have lots of new fl820s

I do baby the expe.
Almost never sees rpm over 2k.

Oil pressure is probably far from max at any given time. I dont know if that is enough to use up my stash or dump it and start researching oil filters.
Researching oil gave me and few others spikes in bp

Cut each one and see if it is a problem. If no problems use them up.

 

[merconvvv]

Originally Posted By: WellOiled
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
hummm i have lots of new fl820s

I do baby the expe.
Almost never sees rpm over 2k.

Oil pressure is probably far from max at any given time. I dont know if that is enough to use up my stash or dump it and start researching oil filters.
Researching oil gave me and few others spikes in bp

Cut each one and see if it is a problem. If no problems use them up.

Once cut open how do you use them up?

 

[merconvvv]

Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
If the bypass valve is closed with no media tears all the oil flow goes through the media in a full flow filter.

A good way to yhink about a media tear is to think about running a traditional style vacuum cleaner with hole in the bag vs. one with an intact bag. The pressure drop will redistribute but the resistance of the tear hole is much less than the resistance of the media.


Yes thats what i am trying to figure out. Lets say the bypass valve is closed. Then lets say for the photo provided with the tear and lets assume there is only one tear atthe bottom. Are we looking at 10 20 30 ...80 90 percent filtering ? Just a rough idea. I am thinking it wouldnt be lower than 10 percent or so.

 

[Nyogtha]

It would reslly take some decent modeling software to answer the question. Without really knowing the resistance of the media, and each given oil flow rate, and each given hole size, there's not any easy way to quantitatively answer.

Running 0W-XX oils in thd winter months would help reduce risk but as we've seen here pleat spacing plays a large role, which there's no readily available tool to check without cutting open on a canister style filter.

 

[merconvvv]

Can one detect a tear by monitoring an accurate oil pressure gauge (not the one my ford came with

 

[Nyogtha]

How would that be done?

You really need a map of filter differential pressure for a given RPM (flow rate) for a given oil temperature, then allow for batch to batch much less brand to brand allowable oil viscosity differences.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: merconvvv
hummm i have lots of new fl820s

I do baby the expe.
Almost never sees rpm over 2k.


You drive like me - I never worry about a filter tearing.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
How would that be done?

You really need a map of filter differential pressure for a given RPM (flow rate) for a given oil temperature, then allow for batch to batch much less brand to brand allowable oil viscosity differences.


If you have pressure gauges before and after to measure differential, like this:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3197094/

Then you would know if the pressure was exactly the same (both in and out).

I really wouldn't worry about it. I suppose like it was said, run none for more than 5,000

 

[merconvvv]

I am thinking more like for whatever oil you are running the computer moniters and stores oil pressure data. Then lets say a tear occurs at time t1 and by comparing the oil pressure at t1-u; and t1 and t1 +u; can one figure out something bad has happened in the oil system including the filter.

Also if tears can never be detected then short oci will minimize the damage ?

Lawn mowers dont have oil filters. I think some old vw did not have oil filters. And there is no gaurantee that expensive well made filters will be tear free 100 percent so there is always some risk which can be minimized by short oci.

Is fl500s better constructed than fl820s ?

Are these filters made by purolators?

 

[merconvvv]

Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
hummm i have lots of new fl820s

I do baby the expe.
Almost never sees rpm over 2k.


You drive like me - I never worry about a filter tearing.


Comforting to hear. I do change the oil a lot (just not the filter on the expe

 

[Nyogtha]

Well you're welcome to try to develop a system based on only one instrument reading.

My ZTR mower uses an oil filter, currently I have a Wix made Carquest Blue 85516 (Fram TG3600 equivalent) installed instead of the factory Ecore equivalent to a Fram PH3614. But my lawn mower engine experiences far fewer annual hours of run time than my truck, and doesn't have a bunch of "stuff" like EGR etc. incorporated in its engine. One could fab a blanking plate for a vehicle engine and run no oil filter vs. a torn or intact oil filter, but why one who would desire vehivle engine longevity would do this is beyond me. Consequences of unnecessary wear are different in terms of both financial and cascade effect for a lawn mower vs. the freedom of having a vehicle.

Personally I don't think the FL-500S is better constructed than the FL-820S but fewer tears have been reported. Because? What's the population distribution of FL-500S users who post on BITOG that cut filters open vs. similar FL-820S users? I doubt anyone knows.

Yes Motorcraft oil filters are manufactured by Purolator, under contract to Ford specs no doubt, for a long time now. Ford factory filters are manufactured by Champion Laboratories and the factory equivalent of the FL-820S is the pre-Ecore version of the PH820, with seperate ADBV and base end BPV. I'd buy those if they were available at retail.

 

[merconvvv]

I was not going to run the expe with a filter with no media so that it can mimic a lawn mower with no oil filter. That wud not be good idea. I was trying to figure out how much damage would a tear do and short oci are perhaps one way to minimize damage.
Who knows 3k oci may have some merit in keeping the car lasting longer.

 

[WellOiled]

Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
hummm i have lots of new fl820s

I do baby the expe.
Almost never sees rpm over 2k.

Oil pressure is probably far from max at any given time. I dont know if that is enough to use up my stash or dump it and start researching oil filters.
Researching oil gave me and few others spikes in bp

Cut each one and see if it is a problem. If no problems use them up.

Once cut open how do you use them up?

Cut and inspect the oil filter after the oil change. Develop a history under your operating conditions. If your experience is good, continue to use them. If they tear, then you will know you need to can them. Simple.

 

[Nyogtha]

Originally Posted By: merconvvv
I was not going to run the expe with a filter with no media so that it can mimic a lawn mower with no oil filter. That wud not be good idea. I was trying to figure out how much damage would a tear do and short oci are perhaps one way to minimize damage.
Who knows 3k oci may have some merit in keeping the car lasting longer.



Well you were the one bringing up the lawn mower stuff and in this context I can't understand where else you might have been going with that.

Considering there's quite a bit of contention on how oil filter efficiency affects wear by some, which would include efficiency as low as zero, and statements that no one wants to do a study the right way, any answrr on OCI frequency to reduce risk falls into that same category. Feel free to join that discussion. I already stated my position in the mist recent 5hread on that topic.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...ncy#Post4442189

Would the cost of oil filters exceed the incremental cost of motor oil on increased frequency oil changes? If not, why take that approach?

 

[HouseTiger]

Originally Posted By: WellOiled



Cut each one and see if it is a problem. If no problems use them up.
Once cut open how do you use them up



DUCT TAPE ? (seems to work on everything else

 

[WellOiled]

Originally Posted By: HouseTiger
Originally Posted By: WellOiled



Cut each one and see if it is a problem. If no problems use them up.
Once cut open how do you use them up



DUCT TAPE ? (seems to work on everything else

I can hear the OP asking how long that would last.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: merconvvv
I am thinking more like for whatever oil you are running the computer moniters and stores oil pressure data. Then lets say a tear occurs at time t1 and by comparing the oil pressure at t1-u; and t1 and t1 +u; can one figure out something bad has happened in the oil system including the filter.


That won't work because the oil pressure sensor is typically after the oil filter. So the "oil pressure" you see is an indication of only the engine oiling system's resistance to flow. The only way to know if the media torn inside the oil filter would be to baseline measure the oil temperature and the delta-p across the filter to obtain a curve, then monitor those parameters over time to see if there's a sudden shift downward in the curve.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
If the bypass valve is closed with no media tears all the oil flow goes through the media in a full flow filter.

A good way to yhink about a media tear is to think about running a traditional style vacuum cleaner with hole in the bag vs. one with an intact bag. The pressure drop will redistribute but the resistance of the tear hole is much less than the resistance of the media.


Yes thats what i am trying to figure out. Lets say the bypass valve is closed. Then lets say for the photo provided with the tear and lets assume there is only one tear at the bottom. Are we looking at 10 20 30 ...80 90 percent filtering ? Just a rough idea. I am thinking it wouldnt be lower than 10 percent or so.


It should be 100% filtering through the media ... that's why 99.9% of guys here don't use oil filters with a history of tearing media.

 

[Triton_330]

Originally Posted By: merconvvv
I do baby the expe.
Almost never sees rpm over 2k.


I think my jaw may have just touched the floor... You've got to be kidding me - you rarely go over 2k RPM in an Expedition with the 4.6L!? Your Expedition is slightly heavier and has less power than my F-150 with the 5.4L. When I am driving what I deem to be slow, I usually hit 2.25k to 2.5k shifts from 1st to 2nd gear (when accelerating onto a highway). When I am driving what I deem to be between normal to slightly peppy, I usually hit 2.5k to 2.75k shifts from 1st to 2nd gear (when accelerating onto a highway). If I'm in a hurry, I'll hit between 3k to 3.25k shifts from 1st to 2nd gear (when accelerating onto a highway).

Furthermore, when I pass someone (and not that I pass people a lot - just the occasional grandma going 45-50mph in a 55 zone), I do not like being in the oncoming lane for long periods of time (even if it looks clear, you never know if someone could pull onto the highway from an off-street without realizing you're passing someone), so I always go WOT when passing. The law states it is legal to go [no more than] 10mph over the limit in order to safely pass someone. I usually set my cruise at 58mph in 55 zones, so I'm not a speed demon by any means, but I as I said I do not hesitate to go WOT to pass people in order to limit the amount of time I am in the oncoming lane. I know this might sound reasonable, but I almost get nervous when riding with my mother when she's driving and she goes to pass someone, because it takes her 4 to 5 times the amount of time it takes me to pass someone.

(Sorry for being off-topic, but I was genuinely shocked there for a moment).

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: Triton_330
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
I do baby the expe.
Almost never sees rpm over 2k.


I think my jaw may have just touched the floor... You've got to be kidding me - you rarely go over 2k RPM in an Expedition with the 4.6L!? Your Expedition is slightly heavier and has less power than my F-150 with the 5.4L.


I don't know how this is *strange* - I rarely go over 2,000 rpm in my 4.6 F150 (2008) and it accelerates just fine?!?

Maybe you need to adjust your transmission shift points?