Additives to gas in new car (<500 miles)

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What is "TC-
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_WS?"
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
TopTier gas with no additives. If you want to add something go for Techron but wait until maybe 10k as your injectors should not need cleaning when new.


Top Tier gas with no *additional* additives.

The additives are critical with modern E10/E15 gas. Some additives inhibit corrosion, which would otherwise be a massive problem with the alcohol and trace water. Without anti-deposit additives, the corrosion inhibitors and contaminants form deposits as hard layers. With additives, the deposits are weak crumbly layers.

You have to be careful with additives in a bottle -- you don't want to block either the corrosion inhibitors or the anti-deposit additives already in the fuel.
 
You know that your modern car can go 300K miles without running 2 cycle oil in it right? And 2 cycle oil could damage your catalytic converter and emissions equipment.
 
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I must be losing my mind. Additive manufacturers and forums have gotten people to think that additives have any use in a car that's new.
 
Originally Posted By: Kira
"Just Say NO" ......but what is TC-WS (or whatever it was)?

I think it's supposed to be TC-W3. That's just a standard for two-stroke motorboat oil. Some are convinced that beyond upper cylinder lubrication, it will also supposedly clean up issues from ethanol. However, ethanol isn't really known for causing a whole lot of deposit issues, and anyone using a high detergent gasoline routinely should have a fair clean engine. There are a lot of myths out there. Quite of few of them assume that certain brands have issues, but it ignores that fuel is sold as a fungible commodity and often commingled with commodity fuel from several sources.
 
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: Kira
"Just Say NO" ......but what is TC-WS (or whatever it was)?

I think it's supposed to be TC-W3. That's just a standard for two-stroke motorboat oil. Some are convinced that beyond upper cylinder lubrication, it will also supposedly clean up issues from ethanol. However, ethanol isn't really known for causing a whole lot of deposit issues, and anyone using a high detergent gasoline routinely should have a fair clean engine. There are a lot of myths out there. Quite of few of them assume that certain brands have issues, but it ignores that fuel is sold as a fungible commodity and often commingled with commodity fuel from several sources.


They must be stuck in the old days. Back then you used to floor it also before shutting the car off so that in theory there'd be a little gas in the carb so it'd be easier to start. Fuel injection makes that pointless but some still did it. Now engines, oils and fuels are much better but people still like to waste their money on snake oils.
 
READ YOUR OWNERS MANUAL

For example:
- Newer GDI Kias and Hyundais require that you use their gasoline additive (which is Techron), if top tier gas is not used
- Audi has recommended Techron for decades
 
Originally Posted By: knerml
READ YOUR OWNERS MANUAL

For example:
- Newer GDI Kias and Hyundais require that you use their gasoline additive (which is Techron), if top tier gas is not used
- Audi has recommended Techron for decades

I don't believe they actually require it. They recommend it. In general they say that one should use a "good quality" fuel with detergent additives and leaves "Top Tier" as an example for what to look for. However, there have been plenty of high quality fuels that meet Top Tier standards even if they're not licensed. Costco gas went to Top Tier status overnight as soon as they were able to get their system installed in all their stations. The stations that were using their "Kirkland Signature" fuel additive didn't change a thing. BP took years to get Top Tier licensing, even though it was pretty well known that they probably met the detergent quality requirements.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
TopTier gas with no additives. If you want to add something go for Techron but wait until maybe 10k as your injectors should not need cleaning when new.


+1 This is what I did for all the vehicles in my signature. Using top tier gas should prevent issues in almost all cases. Bottle of techron every 10k can help and/or give you the warm and fuzzies
 
Well I'm gonna chime in with my 2 cents. Seems some people think all gas is perfect as long as it's 1 of the 100 or whatever Top tier fuels. All things are not equal. Ethanol is not the best thing ever produced and imo the whole ethanol thing is a money making scam forced on us with crazy prices.

1. Top tier gas you can depend on in your area and I suggest E0 to prevent all of the negatives of ethanol. We are using ethanol because of greedy politicians that found an excuse to not use it. One day something will replace ethanol just like MTBE and MTBE did lead. It will keep going if there is a bigger profit somewhere. It's the American way

2. Oil Catch Can. IMO the most needed item on any car for any reason. Some cars are consuming quarts of oil by way of pcv in short time frames. Its not safe and it's not regulated unless you decide how much oil is dumped in your intake manifold.

3. I don't see why a tad of 2 cycle oil for lube purposes is gonna hurt. Like mentioned above, do it sparingly. Like 1000:1

4. Some guys are in the 90s timeframe where everything sold in stores is snake oil and everything at the pump is perfect. I don't see a reason why it's different for a owner to choose his own additives vs what additives are thrown in at the storage facility. Especially with companies being different. What gas station owner is a cheapskate and who is good fearing. I think humanity has proven big corporations will f-over anyone to save a buck. Yes there are top tier requirements but it's like a factory paint job. It's gonna be smooth, it will shine, last a long time, but I can make any brand new car off the lot look ten times better because the minimal amount is done for requirements. In almost everything. They don't spend the time to truly make a paint shine like it can or protect it. This is just an example. They want engines to last 100-200k miles. They do not want engines to last 500k miles because of loss of profits. If gas makers can get away with a gas that's good enough for this test, that product reduced our profits let's not use that and let's use this instead. So I still stand by belief that everything can be improved.

In a nutshell I say run the small mixture additives you have had luck with. I've made it 35 years with alot of racing in my day. Modded alot of engines, played with additives, etc etc I've yet to lose an engine either just like the ones who say they have 500k mile Corvettes and run cheap 87 octane the whole time without issues. Opinions will be opinions just like religion and people will die still believing what they believe 25 years before
 
Originally Posted By: OilSwag
Ethanol is not the best thing ever produced and imo the whole ethanol thing is a money making scam forced on us with crazy prices.

I would gather, though, that the oil companies aren't selling us E0 simply at cost, either.
 
Originally Posted By: OilSwag
Well I'm gonna chime in with my 2 cents. Seems some people think all gas is perfect as long as it's 1 of the 100 or whatever Top tier fuels. All things are not equal. Ethanol is not the best thing ever produced and imo the whole ethanol thing is a money making scam forced on us with crazy prices.

There's no such thing as an absolute price to produce anything. When it comes to refining oil, they have to think of the entire picture including gasoline, diesel, kerosene/jet fuel, lubes, and asphalt. No refinery can only make 93 octane E0. In my state it's basically not refined at all, and almost all 91 octane premium requires ethanol. They need to be able to sell all this fuel and without ethanol it makes it a lot more difficult unless an alternate oyxgenate/octane booster can be used.

As for ethanol and price - there basically has to be some sort of oxygenate in order to meet certain emissions standards. On top of that, when the nationwide price of base fuel was averaging around $3/gallon, the price of fuel grade denatured ethanol was less than $2/gallon. If anything, it's lowering the price of fuel. That I'm filling up with fuel containing ethanol is low on my list of things to worry about. My fuel system is sealed, and if there's a leak I have some more serious things to worry about.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: OilSwag
Ethanol is not the best thing ever produced and imo the whole ethanol thing is a money making scam forced on us with crazy prices.

I would gather, though, that the oil companies aren't selling us E0 simply at cost, either.


Quite astute. A number of oil companies also own ethanol plants either outright or in part interest.

RINs further complicate the market well beyond just oxygenate considerations. With both oxygenate mandates and renewable fuels mandates concurrently in place I think it'tt take quite a breakthrough to find something that (ful)fills both bills.

MTBE is still widely used outside the USA, including Europe. Lyondell in Houston still operates their monster MTBE plant, solely for export.
 
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