AC759 - 29ft from worst aviation crash in history

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Actually it was 100 feet vertically and 29 feet laterally.

"It is estimated that ACA759 overflew the first two aircraft by 100 feet, the third one by 200 feet and the
last one by 300 feet."
 
SFO is not an easy airport. Terrain, weather, runway configuration and an approach control that leaves airplanes high, fast, and then shifts responsibility for safe operation solely onto the aircrews through the use of visual separation and visual approaches.

Just ask Asiana Airlines - flight 214 was on a clear day, no weather, but the usual SFO "slam dunk" clearance for a visual.

Which turned out to be more than they were able to handle.
 
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Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Anybody know the types sitting on the taxiway that were overflown?

Reports here said there were 4 "wide body" passenger jets waiting for take off.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/air-canada-sfo-taxiway-1.4198946

Quote:
"If it is true, what happened probably came close to the greatest aviation disaster in history," said retired United Airlines Capt. Ross Aimer, CEO of Aero Consulting Experts.

"If you could imagine an Airbus colliding with four passenger aircraft wide bodies, full of fuel and passengers, then you can imagine how horrific this could have been," he said.


Seems like a few pilot errors, but if you listen to the voice recorder the pilot seems pretty calm.
 
Also, the linked document is a typical ATC CYA report.

The controller was "coordinating with another agency".

I.E. they were on the phone, not looking at the runway or AC 759. Not watching the operation for which they were responsible.

It was when the other aircrews spoke up that the controller looked up and then "ordered the go around"...

But AC 759 was already going around, or they would've crashed. The controller issued those instructions well after the critical point at which a crash could've been averted.

ATC is not infallible.
 
While I agree that a crash under those circumstances would have been bad, I'm a little tired of the news outlets exaggerating how bad it could have been and that absolutely everyone on all five planes would have been killed.

Lots of people dead, sure, but not EVERYONE.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
SFO is not an easy airport. Terrain, weather, runway configuration and an approach control that leaves airplanes high, fast, and then shifts responsibility for safe operation solely onto the aircrews through the use of visual separation and visual approaches.


For the layperson, it's surprising to understand that when AC759 told the control tower that they saw lights on the "runway", the control tower simply told them that the runway was clear.

It was left up to a United pilot on the taxiway to warn the control tower that AC759 was going to land on the taxiway.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
It was when the other aircrews spoke up that the controller looked up and then "ordered the go around"...

But AC 759 was already going around, or they would've crashed. The controller issued those instructions well after the critical point at which a crash could've been averted.


That's interesting to hear that AC759 was already pulling up before the control tower instructed them. Hopefully the investigation gets to the bottom of all the factors at play here.

SFO is undergoing runway work at the moment and some feel that was a factor as well.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
But AC 759 was already going around, or they would've crashed. The controller issued those instructions well after the critical point at which a crash could've been averted.

ATC is not infallible.

How much time / distance does it take to stop the sink and establish a positive rate of climb? How much power can they keep up and for how long while on approach?
 
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Originally Posted By: Astro14
It was when the other aircrews spoke up that the controller looked up and then "ordered the go around"...

But AC 759 was already going around, or they would've crashed. The controller issued those instructions well after the critical point at which a crash could've been averted.


That's interesting to hear that AC759 was already pulling up before the control tower instructed them. Hopefully the investigation gets to the bottom of all the factors at play here.

SFO is undergoing runway work at the moment and some feel that was a factor as well.

Is that why 759 was lined up on a taxiway? I didn't know this happened at night. It's a miracle disaster was avoided. Miracle translates to 759 crew alertness.
 
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Anybody know the types sitting on the taxiway that were overflown?


I used Flightradar24's playback feature and came up with this.

United Flight 1, 787-900
Philippines Flight 115, A340-300
United Flight 863, 787-900
United Flight 1118, 737-900

 
It was a [censored] good thing it wasn't a foggy [censored] night or it likely would have actually happened. It just amazes me though how in the world on a clear night those guys couldn't tell blue lights from white ones, particularly with the strobes going and position lights of all those planes plastered all over the area they were going to touch down. The only possible explanation would be that there were so many close in and background lights that everything appeared mixed together. . Still, in spite of any of it there's that little matter of the ILS strobes running off to the side and not directly in front of their path. No matter how you cut it that flight crew wasn't paying attention during the most critical phase of flight.
 
Ground control to Major Tom.
sleep.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
While I agree that a crash under those circumstances would have been bad, I'm a little tired of the news outlets exaggerating how bad it could have been and that absolutely everyone on all five planes would have been killed.

Lots of people dead, sure, but not EVERYONE.


Had he landed on the taxiway, it would have been several hundred dead.

Not sensationalism- just fact. United 1 had over 200 passengers on board. A 150 MPH collision with Air Canada, totaling over 350 people in those two jets alone, would have left few survivors.

Google the crash at Tenerife. 583 dead. 61 survivors. Similar speeds with fewer airplanes and fewer people.

If you think those are good odds, you're not examining them carefully...
 
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