How much better is Shell gas than Exxon?

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Some guy posted he was a retired CE in charge of fuel add pack team. Without naming companies - said he uses 3 tanks from his former company and 4th tank is random.
 
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Some guy posted he was a retired CE in charge of fuel add pack team. Without naming companies - said he uses 3 tanks from his former company and 4th tank is random.

Can't get any more concrete than that
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
How are people determining a good gas vs a crummy gas? Most cars have anti-knock sensors so you may not notice a tiny difference in octane. Fuel tanks and fuel filters are usually spotless unless you have not driven the vehicle for many years.

Most people are not pulling heads to look for deposits and doing fuel injector testing to see how clean they are.


Exactly...they are determining good vs bad by how well the companies advertising is. Gas is gas....get over it.
 
All I can say is, it's so easy to fall into the trap of if it costs more, it must be better! The marketing department is counting on you to make them more money.
 
Originally Posted By: Traction
All I can say is, it's so easy to fall into the trap of if it costs more, it must be better! The marketing department is counting on you to make them more money.

Amen Brotha! I fill up with the cheapest top tier, END OF STORY.
Sunoco (newly top tier, btw) is .30¢ cheaper per gal than the Shell by me, so they get my money.
 
I don't blame you or anyone for boycotting Exxon Mobil. I certainly support that decision in a semi free market economy. I will say I boycotted Exxon Mobil gas for over 20 yrs after I started driving because of the Valdez incident. I lifted my ban when I got to thinking about how moonbats put a windfall tax on them. Their profit margin is 10%. Well if you sell 725 billion worth of product then your profit will rather high at 10%. Where the windfall tax on Bill Gates?? How much profit margin was his corporation making to help that geek be worth 66 billion plus by himself?? Where were the moonbats on taxing him because they thought he was making too much money??? Ohh... Yeah. That didn't happen. Maybe because he was good buddies with the "right" people. Ohh and when your good friend starts flying on a commercial airline instead of his private jet which consumes more fuel in a cross country trip than an average American uses in a calendar year, sells his 10,000 sq foot home (this individual has a second place to say at in San Francisco by the way), and lives in an 1000 sq foot place then... Then I will believe the farce that he propagates.

As far as it comes to which gas is better I think that it truly is a coin flip. I like Shell quite well. Though when I lifted my ban on Exxon Mobil I found the gas from them ran rather well too.
 
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Yep - top of top ten is pharmaceutical at 30% ... funds, tobacco, software , biotechnology, savings & loan, IT, banks at the bottom of top ten at 23%
 
One may be able to boycott a XOM station, but they cannot boycott XOM fuel. A terminal will get its fuel from a variety of refineries. And all the stations in the local area get their fuel from the same terminal(s) in the area. Only thing different is the additives shot into the fuel stream as it is loaded on the tanker for delivery. Any station, on any given day, will have a mix of refinery fuels in the tanks. They don't get to pick which refinery they get their fuel from. They can only select a terminal from those in the area. And every station uses a simple method.... what terminal has the lowest current market price on fuel and the distance that affects delivery cost.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
One may be able to boycott a XOM station, but they cannot boycott XOM fuel. A terminal will get its fuel from a variety of refineries. And all the stations in the local area get their fuel from the same terminal(s) in the area. Only thing different is the additives shot into the fuel stream as it is loaded on the tanker for delivery. Any station, on any given day, will have a mix of refinery fuels in the tanks. They don't get to pick which refinery they get their fuel from. They can only select a terminal from those in the area. And every station uses a simple method.... what terminal has the lowest current market price on fuel and the distance that affects delivery cost.

I think there are a few variables at work here. One is that if it's 93 octane it may be a "specialty fuel" that's not necessarily sold as a commodity. I've certainly heard about a wider distribution of 93 octane in the Midwest, but I was under the impression that it was due to lower demand for premium making higher octane premium more practical. It may not be. A few years back I was in Florida and I did see some gas stations selling 87/89/92/94. The latter carried a steep price increase (maybe 20 cents over 92). However, I understand that some gas stations in the Midwest might have 87/89/93.

Also - a lot of brand name stations have contracts to buy directly from their brand name refiner. When there have been rapid price fluctuations, a lot of franchise owners around here have complained that they were locked into paying the price of their brand name refiner. Of course the delivered fuel may be a commodity even if it's "purchased" as a branded fuel. I understand the way that the major pipeline operators work is that they're paid to accept RBOB at a refinery and they're obligated to deliver the same amount of equivalent fuel at terminal X, Y, and Z for that refiner's customers. The pipeline operator saves time and expense by routing fuel in the shortest route possible to meet their delivery requirements, and other fuel typically comes from the closest refinery to save on transportation costs. Of course that's where the ethanol is added since pipelines don't play nice with ethanol.

I get that a refiner can pay more to get a "segregated" delivery of fuel from point to point rather than the "fungible" model. Colonial describes it pretty well:

Quote:
http://www.colpipe.com/home/about-colonial/frequently-asked-questions

What is the difference between fungible and segregated products?

Fungible products shipped on the Colonial system are generic products. These products meet published Colonial specifications. Shippers will receive equivalent product but may not get back the actual product shipped. Segregated products are branded products or blendstock materials. On segregated shipments shippers receive the same product they injected into the system.
 
In the case of terminals owned by oil companies, in the even of a supply disruption, sometimes unbranded sales / loadings are cut off to preserve supply for branded retail stations.

For example, a Marathon terminal may cut off sales temporarily to all but Marathon and Speedway liftings in the event of a supply disruption, then restore unbranded sales when the disruption is resolved.

Some company owned terminals are supplied via company owned pipelines from a single refinery; not all refined product pipelines are common carrier systems like Colonial.
 
I use mostly Costco gas because (in no particuar order) it's usually the cheapest around, it's Top Tier and they pump more of it than probably anyone else in this general area. During the day the cars are lined up often 2-4 deep on each row of pumps, seems to me you'd be pretty unlikely to get stale gas with the volume they do.
 
Originally Posted By: Brons2
I use mostly Costco gas because (in no particuar order) it's usually the cheapest around, it's Top Tier and they pump more of it than probably anyone else in this general area. During the day the cars are lined up often 2-4 deep on each row of pumps, seems to me you'd be pretty unlikely to get stale gas with the volume they do.


Ditto - I pass by a Costco when I drive up to my parents or the local Wal-Mart and it's right there when I fill up.

XOM did sign an distribution agreement with Tesoro or Valero in NorCal, and they sold their Torrance refinery. Uber inked a deal with XOM to give their "partners" a small break on fuel - around the same time I've seen a few of the local 76 stations convert to Mobil.
 
Originally Posted By: Brons2
I use mostly Costco gas because (in no particuar order) it's usually the cheapest around, it's Top Tier and they pump more of it than probably anyone else in this general area. During the day the cars are lined up often 2-4 deep on each row of pumps, seems to me you'd be pretty unlikely to get stale gas with the volume they do.


What is the definition of the words "top tier"?????
 
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
In the case of terminals owned by oil companies, in the even of a supply disruption, sometimes unbranded sales / loadings are cut off to preserve supply for branded retail stations.

For example, a Marathon terminal may cut off sales temporarily to all but Marathon and Speedway liftings in the event of a supply disruption, then restore unbranded sales when the disruption is resolved.

Some company owned terminals are supplied via company owned pipelines from a single refinery; not all refined product pipelines are common carrier systems like Colonial.

I'm not sure how a company like Shell handles it. They have a major distribution center in Carson, California where their refinery used to be. Their only West Coast refineries are in Martinez, California and Puget Sound in Washington. I suspect that it wouldn't be economically feasible to transport fuel that far most of the time, although it might make sense to have some sort of exchange contracts with other oil companies.
 
Originally Posted By: philipp10
Originally Posted By: Brons2
I use mostly Costco gas because (in no particuar order) it's usually the cheapest around, it's Top Tier and they pump more of it than probably anyone else in this general area. During the day the cars are lined up often 2-4 deep on each row of pumps, seems to me you'd be pretty unlikely to get stale gas with the volume they do.


What is the definition of the words "top tier"?????

Top Tier is a brand name. It was a consortium started by several auto companies including Honda, GM, and BMW. They wanted a standard out there for detergent levels in fuels to provide superior engine cleanliness. Basically there's a requirement that the detergent additive be tested for performance. The oil companies then purchase this additive (although some might make their own) and guarantee that they will use a suitable additive at minimum levels in all the fuel they sell at every station in the United States (or Canada).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Tier_Detergent_Gasoline
 
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
In the case of terminals owned by oil companies, in the even of a supply disruption, sometimes unbranded sales / loadings are cut off to preserve supply for branded retail stations.

For example, a Marathon terminal may cut off sales temporarily to all but Marathon and Speedway liftings in the event of a supply disruption, then restore unbranded sales when the disruption is resolved.

Some company owned terminals are supplied via company owned pipelines from a single refinery; not all refined product pipelines are common carrier systems like Colonial.

I'm not sure how a company like Shell handles it. They have a major distribution center in Carson, California where their refinery used to be. Their only West Coast refineries are in Martinez, California and Puget Sound in Washington. I suspect that it wouldn't be economically feasible to transport fuel that far most of the time, although it might make sense to have some sort of exchange contracts with other oil companies.


Wet barrel product exchange agreements are a backbone of the fuels industry.

When I was a blendineer the driver to switch from blending 92 (R+M)/2 premium unleaded to 93 (R+M)/2 premium unleaded started for one specific terminal our company owned in the South Texas market due to an exchange agreement with Shell for our newly constructed & commissioned pipeline & terminal. I also designed the manifold and pumping station at our refinery for that new pipeline. Of course our company increased our brand to 93 premium for logistics simplification and to stay competitive shortly afterwards.
 
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
In the case of terminals owned by oil companies, in the even of a supply disruption, sometimes unbranded sales / loadings are cut off to preserve supply for branded retail stations.

For example, a Marathon terminal may cut off sales temporarily to all but Marathon and Speedway liftings in the event of a supply disruption, then restore unbranded sales when the disruption is resolved.

Some company owned terminals are supplied via company owned pipelines from a single refinery; not all refined product pipelines are common carrier systems like Colonial.

I'm not sure how a company like Shell handles it. They have a major distribution center in Carson, California where their refinery used to be. Their only West Coast refineries are in Martinez, California and Puget Sound in Washington. I suspect that it wouldn't be economically feasible to transport fuel that far most of the time, although it might make sense to have some sort of exchange contracts with other oil companies.


Wet barrel product exchange agreements are a backbone of the fuels industry.

When I was a blendineer the driver to switch from blending 92 (R+M)/2 premium unleaded to 93 (R+M)/2 premium unleaded started for one specific terminal our company owned in the South Texas market due to an exchange agreement with Shell for our newly constructed & commissioned pipeline & terminal. I also designed the manifold and pumping station at our refinery for that new pipeline. Of course our company increased our brand to 93 premium for logistics simplification and to stay competitive shortly afterwards.

I remember when a friend was absolutely convinced that fuel was better from certain sellers (Chevron, Shell, Mobil) but that other brands were garbage like Arco and Exxon (pre-merger). The strange thing was that he was a business major in college and I would have thought that he would have understood the concept of fungible commodities. However, he was huge on brand names. He was also convinced that anything made in Germany or Japan must be a superior product.

I live reasonably close to the Chevron Richmond, California refinery. Anyone driving there will see lots of tankers coming and going for their fuel deliveries. However, I've found that there are four different fuel terminals there including Chevron, Kinder Morgan, Phillip 66, and Plains All American. The really odd thing is that the Phillips 66 terminal is about 6 miles from their refinery in Rodeo, California. I think the terminal is right next to a tanker dock, so I suppose they use the terminal to take in crude as well as deliver finished fuels. I don't think there's a suitable dock at Rodeo.
 
I'm convinced in states like California the base fuel is the same on a chemistry level - it's the add pack and how the station owner treats their fuel. I've seen a Arco owner in Mill Valley punch holes into the dispenser filters to increase flow - but there were some high dollar cars going there. Costco is notable for injecting their add pack at the POS, I'm sure this is a cost cutting move that actually works.

I bike out to Rodeo or Point Richmond every now and then - the 76 tanker rack isn't by a dock(but Honda and Subaru share one nearby at AWC) but it's near a Union Pacific or BNSF railhead. Philips 66 does have a crude pipeline between Rodeo and SLO/Santa Barbara.
 
Originally Posted By: nthach
I'm convinced in states like California the base fuel is the same on a chemistry level - it's the add pack and how the station owner treats their fuel. I've seen a Arco owner in Mill Valley punch holes into the dispenser filters to increase flow - but there were some high dollar cars going there. Costco is notable for injecting their add pack at the POS, I'm sure this is a cost cutting move that actually works.

I bike out to Rodeo or Point Richmond every now and then - the 76 tanker rack isn't by a dock(but Honda and Subaru share one nearby at AWC) but it's near a Union Pacific or BNSF railhead. Philips 66 does have a crude pipeline between Rodeo and SLO/Santa Barbara.

i've been to that ARCO station. It's maybe the cheapest place to get anywhere in the area and there are lines on the street.

Costco doesn't add at the point of sale but at the time of delivery. I do wonder about how effectively blended it is when I'm pumping and there's a tanker there delivering a load. Splash blending at the terminal should usually result in well blended fuel by the time it reaches the gas station.
 
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