VOA: BMW/MINI 0w-20 LL-14FE+

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Haven't seen a VOA on this oil here, and I'm virtually swimming in the stuff, so I thought I'd send some in. Delivered from supplier less than a month ago but date code is August 2016. Sample from sealed "Mini" labeled bottle, but I'm certain it's exactly the same as BMW branded 0w-20.

I've been running this in my wife's 2014 Forester for quite a while now, after initially only using the idemitsu 0w-20, and it definitely runs quieter on the BMW juice.

Also, it provides "maximum racing feels." Haha



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Originally Posted By: beanoil
It should have gold in it.
11.00 a litre.


Hey, it might! I don't see that blackstone checks for gold or platinum content
 
Its a Shell Oil product. BMW contracted with them to make this. People have wondered if its really Pennz Plat 0w20, and we can see it is not. Pennz Plat 0w20 doesn't use boron at all.
The Pennz Ultra 0w20 does have some boron, so it could be its a close cousin to Pennz Ultra 0w20. The only VOA I find of Pennz Ultra is the 5w30 flavor, not a fully fair comparison, yet the calcium, moly, and boron levels are about identical this LL-14FE+ oil.
 
Originally Posted By: beanoil
It should have gold in it.
11.00 a litre.

Thats Mobil1 Annual Protection 0w20 territory on price. I'd go with the Annual Protection if given the choice. Of course, with the "racing feeling" the Mini claims on the back. ... Marketing...
33.gif


How does one become "swimming" in Mini oil? A dealer?
 
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Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: beanoil
It should have gold in it.
11.00 a litre.

Thats Mobil1 Annual Protection 0w20 territory on price. I'd go with the Annual Protection if given the choice. Of course, with the "racing feeling" the Mini claims on the back. ... Marketing...
33.gif


How does one become "swimming" in Mini oil? A dealer?


Yes BMW/Mini dealer tech

I have no experience at all with M1AP, but I can say that I see cars weekly that have gone 15-20k on this oil. Cars with turbocharged engines, in a climate that is 100 degrees plus virtually all summer long.

Owners that completely ignore the dashboard telling them to go in for service. (More so the Mini crowd) Even when they have free maintenance plans haha.

And they still run fine. Yes it isn't cheap, but it is a solid oil from my field observations.
 
Do you have an Oil Saver at your box? I used to get tons of free oil just from draining the bottles when I was at BMW. So much waste though, everything was individual quarts, some days I went through 40-50 quarts, since they all took minimum of 7. Everything got the Castrol 5/30 for a few years after i left haha.
 
Originally Posted By: Audios
Do you have an Oil Saver at your box? I used to get tons of free oil just from draining the bottles when I was at BMW. So much waste though, everything was individual quarts, some days I went through 40-50 quarts, since they all took minimum of 7. Everything got the Castrol 5/30 for a few years after i left haha.


I absolutely do. I have one for the 0w-20 and one for the LL-01 5w-30. The 0w-30 (LL-01FE) comes from an overhead hose reel with a digital measurement display. The 0w-20, 5w-30, and all others we get in bottles. I'm really only interested in saving the two, though.

Everyone in the shop knows I hoard the two particular oils, and they give me all their empties and partial bottles. I probably have 20+ oil changes worth of 0w-20 for my wife's Forester stashed away in the garage, and I often give away some of my shop stash to coworkers when they need some for their own cars.
 
Seventh, Does BMW approve this 0w20 for all B58 six-cylinder engines? Aftermarket part sellers all say you can, yet the Owners Manual for 2016 BMW 340i B58 says only LL-01 and LL-01FE are allowed. Maybe BMW came out with a statement saying its OK to use this thinner stuff in the B58. N20, sure, its known to be used for that, but using it in B58 engines might be new, if ECS Tuning and Turner Motorsports (parts companies) are right.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Seventh, Does BMW approve this 0w20 for all B58 six-cylinder engines? Aftermarket part sellers all say you can, yet the Owners Manual for 2016 BMW 340i B58 says only LL-01 and LL-01FE are allowed. Maybe BMW came out with a statement saying its OK to use this thinner stuff in the B58. N20, sure, its known to be used for that, but using it in B58 engines might be new, if ECS Tuning and Turner Motorsports (parts companies) are right.


We always put the 0w30 FE oil in them, but I'm sure the 0w20 would be fine, I'll have to look for actual specs at work next chance I get.

For instance, the early (14-15) Mini B38 and B48 engines call for LL-01 oil in the manual. Then they had us (recall) peel off all the oil recommendation labels from the cars that said 5w30, and we started filling them with the 0w30 LL-01FE. Then the '16 cars came out and they had stickers calling for 0w20LL-14FE+.

No mechanical/internal changes to the engines whatsoever, according to the higher ups we asked. It's almost like you can just put whatever you want in them.

I wouldn't put the 0w20 in a B58 if I was really planning on driving the wheels off it, but for commuter/light duty purposes it would probably be fine.

I'll see if I can find some documentation on it
 
Seventh, thanks for the inside info. I can't find any "official" BMW statements on the internet on the issue of using 0w20 in the B58.

I feel confident in using an oil only when the BMW engineers confirm the oil film thickness is good enough. If you've seen some of the engineering studies published, you will notice that every engine design has an HTHS you must never go below. There is a sudden increase in wear when you get too low of an HTHS. That of course is different for each engine type. Stay anywhere above the minimum, and the wear rate appears to be very constant.

Those engineering studies I saw used an engine where HTHS=2.3 was the absolute minimum, and LL-14FE+ has an HTHS=2.7, so some fuel dilution margin is there.
Depends on bearing area, cam lobe area, and timing chain design where the "floor" of HTHS will be.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Seventh, thanks for the inside info. I can't find any "official" BMW statements on the internet on the issue of using 0w20 in the B58.

I feel confident in using an oil only when the BMW engineers confirm the oil film thickness is good enough. If you've seen some of the engineering studies published, you will notice that every engine design has an HTHS you must never go below. There is a sudden increase in wear when you get too low of an HTHS. That of course is different for each engine type. Stay anywhere above the minimum, and the wear rate appears to be very constant.

Those engineering studies I saw used an engine where HTHS=2.3 was the absolute minimum, and LL-14FE+ has an HTHS=2.7, so some fuel dilution margin is there.
Depends on bearing area, cam lobe area, and timing chain design where the "floor" of HTHS will be.


Pardon the delay in response, but I did confirm the 0w20 oil is okay for use in the B58. Not only is it ok, but it's what some of the cars call for on the sticker under the hood.

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason for it, however after talking to some folks it seems that it's mostly on the 2017 and up F30/31/32 (non-M cars). Maybe even late production 16 cars. Possibly for fuel economy reasons?

My co worker has a 2017 F22 M240, and his sticker calls for 0w30.

I'm thinking it's exactly like the Mini B38/48 situation I mentioned, where there is no internal difference in the engines whatsoever, but they all of a sudden call for 0w20 instead of 0/5w30. Makes no sense at all to me, but it is approved for B58 long story short.

However, I was unable to locate any document that specifically states it.
 
Originally Posted By: Seventh
.... I did confirm the 0w20 oil is okay for use in the B58. Not only is it ok, but it's what some of the cars call for on the sticker under the hood....... However, I was unable to locate any document that specifically states it.

Good info. That explains why I couldn't find any public internet BMW documents. Kinda weird. BMW Owners Manuals should be clear to the owner. Othe car makers get sloppy with Owners Manual wording too.

Looks like LL-01FE and LL-14FE+ is practically merging with dexos1 performance levels, now that they match basic viscometrics.

I'd probably still put LL-01, high HTHS, oil in 'M' BMWs, just in case.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies


Looks like LL-01FE and LL-14FE+ is practically merging with dexos1 performance levels, now that they match basic viscometrics.

I'd probably still put LL-01, high HTHS, oil in 'M' BMWs, just in case.


Yeah, it's hard to take BMW seriously anymore with regard to oil specifications. But you're definitely on the right track with your thinking.

LL-01 is becoming obsolete right before our eyes. Start looking for your favorite A3/B4 oil to replace it.
 
Originally Posted By: Seventh
LL-01 is becoming obsolete right before our eyes. Start looking for your favorite A3/B4 oil to replace it.


True, but there is no LL-01 FE or LL-14 FE+ oils to fill the void. I think Fuchs may make an LL-01 FE oil and Motul supposedly has a LL-14 FE+ oil, but hard to find and expensive here in North America. Only other option is BMW branded TwinPower Turbo 0W-30. Would be nice if the big players, Mobil, Castrol, Pennzoil, would have a readily available LL-01 FE oil.
 
Code:


OIL BMW 0w20



MILES IN USE Virgin sample



SAMPLE TAKEN 06/30/2017



ALUMINUM 0

CHROMIUM 0

IRON 0

COPPER 0

LEAD 0

TIN 0

MOLYBDENUM 77

NICKEL 0

MANGANESE 0

SILVER 0

TITANIUM 0

POTASSIUM 0

BORON 131

SILICON 9

SODIUM 3

CALCIUM 2596

MAGNESIUM 5

PHOSPHORUS 701

ZINC 755

BARIUM 0



INSOLUBLES 0.0

WATER 0

FLASHPOINT ºF 440

SUS VIS 210ºF 54.5

cSt @ 212ºF 8.62

TBN 9.3

TAN 2.7


Entered code because photobucket
 
Thanks for reposting the VOA data.

It's interesting to compare this Pennzoil made GTL oil to the PP dexos 1 0W-20 VOA that PQIA analyized earlier this year. The Ca and TBN are close but still a bit higher for the BMW/Mini version. The BMW/Mini oil has a somewhat lower Phos' level but with a bit more moly and a significant amount of Boron vs none for PP.
The BMW oil has a higher KV100 of 8.62cSt vs PP's 8.33cSt which likely is a result of the higher 2.7cP HTHSV of the Bimmer oil.

A KV40 spec' would have been interesting to compare their VIs.
 
Thanks for the VOA and reposting.

It's interesting to see the min HTHS has dropped from 3.5 cP to 2.7 cP
 
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