F1 - 2017 European Grand Prix

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Originally Posted By: Brad_C
Not that it matters, but I thought the bottlas raikonen prang was very much a racing incident. 2 into 1 really didn't go and bottas got caught on the kerb.


Exactly that. BOT had nowhere to go but over the kerb. This launched his car wide and into RAI. Racing incident all day long, no penalty needed. Plus it set him up for a stunning recovery drive.
 
Originally Posted By: weasley
Do you ram anybody at the traffic lights who doesn't pull away sharply?!


Of course not. But you are on a public road, on your way to pick up your kids from soccer practice. Not getting paid $50 MILLION a year to put your multi million dollar race car across a line first, while you've got a guy in front of you, driving like an idiot, blocking you in the process.
 
Originally Posted By: weasley
So? HAM is in control of the pace, Vettel has to react to that. Do you ram anybody at the traffic lights who doesn't pull away sharply?!

No, but it's not the same thing. In almost every situation on the road where someone gets rear ended, the party doing the rear ending is automatically at fault. That doesn't apply with racing. Obviously, this wasn't a brake check, but if someone is driving the racing line and stood on the brakes with cars behind, he'd be in a whack of trouble with the stewards. The doesn't happen on public roadways. Maybe they should have Pastor drive the safety car.

Originally Posted By: weasley
He asked, got told the situation, that was the end of it. He had to ask, but ultimately BOT had his own race to run. You'll note that HAM asked if BOT was not battling with anybody, could he help out.

It is a little precious, though, given the "help" he has historically provided to team mates. Had the situation been reversed, Hamilton would have laughed his head off. He would have been pushing all along, ready to pick up the pieces in case something happened to Stroll or Ricciardo, and given Renault's reliability concerns, being in position to grab Ricciardo's spot would be wise.

With respect to Bottas and Kimi, I'd agree that was a racing incident. He just got bopped out at the wrong angle, and he and Kimi just seem to get together like magnets. They both need transponders that react only to each other, and cut the power in each other's vicinity or something.
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Originally Posted By: Garak
Vettel should have kept himself in check, yes. Had he done so, he would have been on the top step.

Here we agree. [/quote]
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
They both need transponders that react only to each other, and cut the power in each other's vicinity or something.
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I'd have thought if Kimi needed that with anyone it'd be Max.
 
I might have to withdraw all my objections. Jacques Villeneuve repeated most of my points, and went a bit beyond. And, if I'm sharing an opinion with him, it's time to revisit that.
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Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Garak
Vettel should have kept himself in check, yes. Had he done so, he would have been on the top step.

Here we agree.


It's good to agree with yourself.
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Now that FIA has opened an investigation about Baku incident I feel they will be punishing Vettel not only for his ramming but for his 'baggage' from the past as well.
 
Originally Posted By: Finn
Now that FIA has opened an investigation about Baku incident I feel they will be punishing Vettel not only for his ramming but for his 'baggage' from the past as well.

I hope they don't do anything but give him the "final warning". But next time he should get a real punishment.
I know F1 shouldn't become as focused on the "show" as NASCAR, but in most televised racing series I don't think Vettels love tap would be penalized at all?
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: Finn
Now that FIA has opened an investigation about Baku incident I feel they will be punishing Vettel not only for his ramming but for his 'baggage' from the past as well.

I hope they don't do anything but give him the "final warning". But next time he should get a real punishment.
I know F1 shouldn't become as focused on the "show" as NASCAR, but in most televised racing series I don't think Vettels love tap would be penalized at all?


These types of incidents are pretty much always handled on a case-by-case basis. There is the generic "unsportsmanlike conduct" or whatever it's called for anything that doesn't have an explicitly called out rule.

Then again, they could also just go after him for something like "attempting to cause a collision" or "dangerous driving". I don't know what the exact regulations are called.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I hope they don't do anything but give him the "final warning". But next time he should get a real punishment.

Exactly. It's already been dealt with, and they should have started the serious stuff with the Charlie rant last year. Now? At worst, disqualify him from the last race. Even then, that's a bit much.
 
I think it was a "heat of the moment" thing with Vettel. After Hammie rounded the left-hand turn, he slowed down, which is not a logical thing for a race driver to do when preparing for a restart. So Vettel thought he was being brake-checked, and said so on the radio. Then the red mist took over and he pulled up next to Hammie and banged wheels.

I thought Hammie was being a jerk playing games with the safety car gap on the first restart, and his team told him to maintain ten car lengths twice. So he was doing the same shtick on the 2nd restart. What was really going on; he was trying to back up the field so he could make a flying start and not have to deal with any passing attempts in turn 1. He already has a faster car in a straight line than the Ferrari, so what was he worried about? Yes, he was complaining that the safety car was going too slow for him to keep the tires and brakes up to temperature, but that situation is the same for every driver in the field.

Erratic driving behind the safety car should also bring on a dangerous driving penalty. Stacking up the field on a restart can lead to major accidents.
 
One thing that has always baffled me about FIA sanctioned series is the safety car restart procedure. I guess I am just used to watching IndyCar and NASCAR where they have designated restart zones or lines. The whole FIA thing seems really unsafe to let the leader bunch everyone up.

I actually like the IndyCar setup where the flagman can wave off a restart if it isn't to his/her liking. NASCAR refers to the leader as the control car and once they are in a designated zone they set the start unless they go through it, then the flagger drops the flag. They changed the restart rules a few years ago to say that the leader does not have to be the first car to cross the line if they hit the throttle and then back off.
 
Great discussion, guys. My take is they were both wrong. HAM shouldn't have lifted right after apexing the corner where there's only one narrow line for following cars to be on. Additionally, at the point HAM lifted the safety car was quite far ahead. VET should not have hit him the second time, period.

With that said, and strong feelings on both sides, I like the penalty approach as-is because it wasn't the FIA picking winners and losers. They didn't have to penalize HAM because his own team penalized him by not fitting the headrest properly. The 10s for VET was almost equal to HAM's "penalty" so when VET came out with HAM it was a straight fight for the balance of the race with both being taken off of the podium. The one thing I would do differently is give VET more points on his super license. This way he's free to race but one more move like that and he gets a real penalty.
 
Yeah as a Hamilton fan this [censored] me off, but Seb did exactly the right thing per the rules, and optimized his race by running balls out for two laps in clean air.

Everyone followed the rules and the rules applied fairly to everyone involved.
 
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