Ruger 10mm 1911!

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: bsmithwins
Stainless steel galling ins't a new thing. The proper fix is to use compatible grades of stainless that don't gall when they are run together. Barring that, have either the slide or frame plated to keep the stainless separate.

Either way it's the manufacturer's fault.

BSW


Very true. That was a lesson that everyone should have learned from the old AMT guns.

 

[billt460]

This sounds like a metallurgical problem, not a sizing or lubrication one. Les Baer 1911's are fit extremely tight. Most advertise they've seen 50 rounds before they leave the factory. Even then the instructions on several models say to expect to fire an additional 200+ rounds or more before they "wear in" enough to expect 100% reliable functioning with full power loads. But they don't gall up and lock, or require to be beaten apart.

Stainless steel is a bit more susceptible to galling because it is "gummy" by nature, due to it's Nickel content. But that alone is no excuse. I've have several Stainless 1911's from Ruger and Springfield Armory, and have never had any issues in thousands of rounds. I use either RIG Grease or Weapon Shield Lithium Grease, along with high viscosity oil on the slide. And enough to where it's oozing out of the frame rails as I'm shooting. I also wash out the rails on both the frame and slide in clean Kerosene, and blow them completely dry and relubricate after every range session. No one should pay $1,600.00 for a pistol, then have to go though that.

 

[bsmithwins]

Not all stainless steel alloys behave the same when wearing against stainless. This doc has a couple very nice charts showing what grades of stainless are compatible w/o heroic lubrication measures:

https://www.nickelinstitute.org/~/Media/Files/TechnicalLiterature/ReviewofWearandGallingCharacteristicsofStainlessSteel_9006_.pdf

The publication date is 1978. Having a machine fail to function because of galling shows the designer just didn't give a f...

BSW

 

[JHZR2]

So, to get back on topic, may I ask... why? Why a 10mm 1911?

Ive read the discussions on why .40 exists, and why it's lousy, and why 10mm is better.

But what purpose is this pistol meant to serve? Id be concerned that what makes 10mm good for LE might make it poor for home defense. Im not sure if any "agencies" are carrying 1911 pistols, and the USMC pistol variant is a dual spring .45 iirc.

It doesn't seem that this would be as conducive to carry as, say, the 10mm glock.

So... why?

Serious question desiring enlightenment.

 

[Astro14]

It's a niche. The 1911 platform has its adherents. I love shooting my .45, for example. There are lots of 1911 die-hards.

There are cases where the 10mm is ballistically superior. Higher velocity, better penetration, significantly more muzzle energy, than the .45ACP. There is a reason that the FBI selected the 10mm in the wake of the 1986 Fort Lauderdale shootout: performance. They could've selected the .45ACP, and it was already in the supply system with well-known pistol options. But no, they chose the best ballistics they could get (ignoring the effect of a large frame auto and high recoil on the system performance of shooter/weapon/ammo - a decision they came to regret later when scores declined).

So, combine your love of the 1911 platform with your desire for the 10mm performance and viola!

But it's a niche. There are just a few 10mm guns out there in the marketplace, from just a few manufacturers, E.G. G20, G29, Colt Delta Elite, DW, so adding one more 10mm doesn't change the fact that it's still a niche, it's just nice to see another player in that niche.

As with all guns (platform and caliber) intended use matters a lot. The G20, for example, my choice for backcountry, or just having around, is a big frame. The 1911 frame is smaller, easier to grip, and because of its weight, might be easier for some people to shoot. Heavy to carry? Yeah, sure, but if you're looking for a 10mm, what are your choices?

The G20 is perfect...for me. I find the G29 punishing. No fun to shoot at all. I wouldn't practice much with it, making it a poor choice, again, for me. Since I already own a 10mm, and have lots of ammo in 10mm, the argument could be made that I should've bought a 10mm 1911 pistol. The .45ACP (which was a present, but that's another topic) added a new caliber, requiring more ammo to be bought and kept on hand, and some new brushes, etc.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
So, to get back on topic, may I ask... why? Why a 10mm 1911?

Ive read the discussions on why .40 exists, and why it's lousy, and why 10mm is better.

But what purpose is this pistol meant to serve? Id be concerned that what makes 10mm good for LE might make it poor for home defense. Im not sure if any "agencies" are carrying 1911 pistols, and the USMC pistol variant is a dual spring .45 iirc.

It doesn't seem that this would be as conducive to carry as, say, the 10mm glock.

So... why?

Serious question desiring enlightenment.



Why not ask why of all these:

Current production is marked with a (*)

*American Derringer 10mm
AMT (Automag IV, Javelina, Backup 10mm conv.)
Armalon PC
Auto Ordnance 1911 & 1927-A1 Tommy Gun 10mm
*Bond Arms 10mm
Bren Ten (Standard, Military & Police, Dual Master, Special Forces Dark & Light, Jeff Cooper, Pocket Model)
Coharie Arms CA (89K-10, 89-10, 94-10), see also Special Weapons
*Colt Delta (Elite, Gold Cup, Elite Rail Gun)
*Coonan 10mm 1911
Dan Wesson/CZ PM7 10mm
*Dan Wesson/CZ (Razorback, Bruin, Silverback, Titan, CBOB, Sportsman, Valor, Fury)
D MAX Industries 10mm
*Desert Design & Development, LLC, 10mm AR Carbine
*EAA (see Tanfoglio)
Federal Ordnance Peters Stahl PSP-07
*Flint River Armory CSA10mm
*Fusion Arms 1911 style 10mm
*Glock (G20, G29, G40)
*Grand Power P40
Guncrafter Ind. 1911 10mm
Heckler & Koch (H&K) MP5/10 A3
*Iver Johnson Arms (EAGLE XL 10MM, Ported EAGLE XL)
Kase Reeder Ultimate 10
*KIMBER (Eclipse Custom II, TLE II, TLE Rail II, Super Jägare)
Kimber Target II
Korriphila II / Minigun PP-10 (by Edgar Budischowsky)
Korth 10mm
KRISS Vector 10mm
LAR Grizzly
*Les Baer 1911 Premier II, 6” Model 10mm Hunter
*Mechtech Conversion 10mm
*Nighthawk
Nobilta-TWM Nobile 10mm
*Olympic Arms AR 10mm
*PARA Elite LS Hunter
Para Ordnance P16-10 conv.
*Remington R1 10mm Hunter LS
Republic Forge
*RMW AR 10mm
*Rock Island Armory (Pro Match Ultra, Rock Ultra, TAC Ultra)
Ruger (Buckeye 10mm, GP100 10mm, and 10mm/38-40 @ Roy Rogers Museum)
*Ruger SR1911 10mm
*SIG Sauer (P220 10mm Auto, 1911 Tacops 10mm)
Sig M2 10mm conv.
Smith & Wesson (Mod. 1006, Mod. 1026, Mod. 1046, Mod. 1066, Mod. 1076, Mod. 1086, Mod. 610, Mod 310, 4013 10mm conv., 4014 10mm conv., 4053 10mm conv., 4054 10mm conv.)
Special Weapons SW (89K-10,89-10,94-10)
Sphinx 3000 10mm
Springfield Armory (Omega-Match, Linkless, Trophy)
Star Megastar
STI (Nitro 10, Perfect 10mm)
*Tanfoglio (Stock I/II/III, Match, Hunter, Limited, Limited Pro, Polymer, Xtreme, Witness, Witness Compact, Witness Carry Comp, Polymer Carry), Imported by EAA
Taurus 405 10mm (conversion)
The Laser Aim 10mm
Thompson Center Arms Contender
Thureon Defense 10mm Magnum
Tony Rumore's M1 Carbine 10mm
*Wilson Combat (several like CQB, Hunter, Classic,)
Wyoming Arms Parker Model (3 types)\

You could ask the same of any caliber and gun. But why does a gun need any more justification than any object as your question seems to imply?

For me, it's a great fun round. Fun to shoot and reload. Fun to explore, both my target limits and reloading enjoyment. Frankly 10mm is the only thing I have been reloading the last 12 months.

A 1911 IS definitely THE most comfortable and accurate gun in my hand. BTW, I don't think .40SW is lousy, but the 10mm is just a wider dynamic range. From plinking to burning hot 300 yard rounds, the 10mm is more versatile than .45ACP, sure not the mag cap of 9mm, but more than .45ACP. Here's where I am odd: I scored a very early SR1911 when they first came out several years back. It was an OK 1911, but nothing special. I traded it (I have other 1911's). But now I will be a buyer of the Ruger 10mm 1911.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Pablo


Why not ask why of all these:
...
You could ask the same of any caliber and gun. But why does a gun need any more justification than any object as your question seems to imply?

For me, it's a great fun round. Fun to shoot and reload. Fun to explore, both my target limits and reloading enjoyment. Frankly 10mm is the only thing I have been reloading the last 12 months.

A 1911 IS definitely THE most comfortable and accurate gun in my hand. BTW, I don't think .40SW is lousy, but the 10mm is just a wider dynamic range. From plinking to burning hot 300 yard rounds, the 10mm is more versatile than .45ACP, sure not the mag cap of 9mm, but more than .45ACP. Here's where I am odd: I scored a very early SR1911 when they first came out several years back. It was an OK 1911, but nothing special. I traded it (I have other 1911's). But now I will be a buyer of the Ruger 10mm 1911.


Why not? I could, but this discussion was specifically of a ruger SR1911, so that's why I ask.

A 1911 10mm holds the same 8+1 as a .45ACP 1911.

If we're talking defensive situations that drove the round's creation, the big Glock holds 15... meanwhile as a bedstand gun, if I wanted such ballistics, you can now get 8 round ruger 357 magnum revolvers that are arguably more reliable. And I'm not sure if one necessarily wants those ballistics for in house defense.

For plinking, why would I want the cost of 10mm vs 9mm, .38spl, .45ACP or especially .22LR?

For home defense, where does the 10mm shine vs anything else? Notionally the shooting isn't going through car doors and barriers. If you want a bigger hole and more speed than 9mm/.38, why not .44mag/spl, or .45ACP +P to be reasonably speedy with a bigger hole? Id assume .45ACP shoots easier making for better follow ups.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be very interested in a S&W 610 if they ever started making them again. I don't mind half moon clips and think the round and its .40S&W sibling might be a better "bigger" (than 9mm; the Jeff Cooper concept) round than .44 spl/mag for certain situations. I have interest in the round, and my intent isn't to belittle it or guns made to handle it.

But I don't see my question as invalid, and lie a good discussion on the topic.

Originally Posted By: Astro14
It's a niche. The 1911 platform has its adherents. I love shooting my .45, for example. There are lots of 1911 die-hards.


Thought so. I can imagine its a good hunting round if one is so inclined. And I'm a fan of the 1911 in general. Ill likely have a Colt competition 9mm before the summer end. But even that gun is a good example. For serious target shooters, they offer a .38 super. You'd think if 10mm was going to help win marksmanship competitions, they would make a version in 10mm based upon the delta elite.

So I don't see many niches where something else couldnt work similarly well. Unless you already are very invested in .40/10mm, which Is expect most people are not yet at least. But I may be wrong. That's why aim generally interested.

 

[Astro14]

The 10mm isn't that expensive for plinking. I buy it new for .30/round. www.sgammo.com. That's about the same as .45ACP. About the same as .40.

Where does it shine? Well, it's good for anything on which you would use a .40. The 10mm is the same bullet, only faster. SD? Yep. Particularly if you've got a large assailant and they're dressed for wintertime.

But in addition to barrier penetration and performance, the 10mm shines for hunting and on large game. The 220GR hardcast load from Buffalo Bore is over 700 ftlbs of punch. Far more than any .45 ACP, or .40. Double a good 9mm. And that will penetrate deep enough to take on large game. Particularly if that game decides you're a threat, or prey. It's darn close to a .41 magnum. And while a good .44 magnum load has a lot more energy, that's really expensive to shoot and hard to handle in a carry gun. My brother has a S&W model 57 (.41 mag) with a 4" barrel. Painful to shoot. Heavier than my G20. Holds only 40% as much ammo. And it doesn't offer a whole bunch more muzzle energy. Oh, and the ammo can't be found for under $1.00 a round.

Can't say that I think a revolver is more reliable than a Glock. I've seen plenty of revolvers jam or have issues from wear and neglect. And it's not a simple tap and rack to get them working again.

I had no idea that there were so many options in 10mm firearms, but surely one of those would fit your needs?

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
I had no idea that there were so many options in 10mm firearms, but surely one of those would fit your needs?


Well that comes back to my original post... what need does this satisfy, besides having another caliber in my collection?

If there's a compelling place for it, perhaps I'll consider one. It seems to me that I'll not likely be hunting with a 10mm pistol, vs a long gun. And a hot .357 as a backup for bear is likely just fine to have.

Its cheap and fun to shoot 9mm in semi autos. Not sure I'll get any further enjoyment over that and .45.

For home defense, Im not sure Im sold on magnum type loads, which I consider the 10mm (may be wrong on many accounts here). But I don't own a .40 either, so it's investment in a new caliber.

As I mentioned above, if S&W started making the 610 again, I'd likely buy a 6" revolver. Not sure I'm compelled yet for any gun on the list, or the ruger. That's not to disparage the gun or anyone buying one. Im just not seeing it as something compelling to me yet...

 

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted By: Astro14

My brother also has a Dan Wesson 10mm Razorback. A HUGE disappointment. It was properly lubricated before firing, then locked up, TIGHT, on the 3rd magazine. The slide jammed on the frame. A block of wood and a hammer was required to get it apart. You could see the galling. They claimed it was my brother's fault, for not lubricating it.

A brand new $1,600 pistol that failed in 20 rounds? And it's not their fault? They will never see a dime of my $$...and I had figured that the Colt Delta Elite was my only hope of a 1911 in 10mm...


Darn right that's a disappointment. More in DW customer service than the actual gun, because they knew some of their pistols were having galling problems.

Glad that hasn't been my experience. My Dan Wesson Heritage (their entry-level model) was my first 1911. I chose it over others because of the rep that DW has for build quality for the money (they're considered almost equal to a semi-custom 1911, but for less than half the money, with tool-steel fire control parts, etc.).

Mine hasn't so much as hiccuped in the year and a half I've had it. And I've put thousands of rounds through it - mostly cheap Blazer aluminum.

Also surprised because, as others have mentioned, I've never heard of Keith not taking care of someone who had a problem.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
So, to get back on topic, may I ask... why? Why a 10mm 1911?

Ive read the discussions on why .40 exists, and why it's lousy, and why 10mm is better.

But what purpose is this pistol meant to serve? Id be concerned that what makes 10mm good for LE might make it poor for home defense. Im not sure if any "agencies" are carrying 1911 pistols, and the USMC pistol variant is a dual spring .45 iirc.

It doesn't seem that this would be as conducive to carry as, say, the 10mm glock.

So... why?

Serious question desiring enlightenment.


I think a big reason is the 10 MM gives about the best ballistic performance that the average shooter can handle, out of a high capacity, semi auto pistol. Wheel guns have lost some popularity over the last couple of decades, in favor of automatics. Automatics are limited in the amount of pressure and power they can handle, without becoming uselessly big, heavy, and unwieldy. The Magnum Research Desert Eagle is a perfect example. They've taken Magnum auto pistol performance to the highest level. But at the expense of creating a pistol that is good for not much more than being a range toy and a movie star.

The 10 MM is far more practical because it can be built around .45 ACP frames. Both the 1911 and the Glock have 10 MM weapons that weigh little, to no more, but perform far better than the .45's do. The 10 MM can be mastered quite easily by most shooters, who want to take the time and ammunition to practice with it. It was a poor choice for the FBI. But I think that might have been different, if the full frame Glock's had been in existence at that time in 10 MM, instead of S&W big and heavy 1006 pistols. Had the FBI stuck with the 10 MM, and instituted a longer, more rigorous training schedule with it, the results might have improved. But they were spending the taxpayers money, so they didn't seem to care about making the investment pay off.

As far as the .40 S&W, it was nothing more than a solution looking for a problem. It was brilliant the way S&W developed and marketed that cartridge. Probably exceeded only by the Hula Hoop and the Super Ball. But it soon became apparent it's performance was no better than the 9 MM for law enforcement applications. Except with greater recoil, ammunition cost, and wear and tear. Law enforcement is what drove it's development in the first place. Add in the way 9 MM self defense ammunition has been improving in the last few years, and it simply made the nails longer, and easier to drive into the .40 S&W's coffin. It's popularity seemed to last no better. It didn't take long to realize many .40 S&W's built on 9 MM frames were tearing up guns as fast or faster than full size 10 MM guns. After several departments and shooters began finding this out over time, it's popularity began dropping even quicker. Today it is surviving solely by the amount of gun chambered for it that are out there. New .40 S&W sales have declined heavily, as the round has lost whatever charisma and hype it possessed out of the starting gate.

While all of this was going on, the 10 MM kept gaining steam. New guns. More ammunition being produced by more companies, in more loadings and bullet weights. And new shooters happily discovering the rounds performance and potential. In both hunting, and self defense roles. As a shooter that has been involved with guns over the last 45 years. I have acquired about as many calibers as I care to get into. Perhaps too many. But I have to admit, the 10 MM has me seriously considering adding yet another to an already long list. It's a fantastic cartridge.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Pablo


Why not ask why of all these:
...
You could ask the same of any caliber and gun. But why does a gun need any more justification than any object as your question seems to imply?

For me, it's a great fun round. Fun to shoot and reload. Fun to explore, both my target limits and reloading enjoyment. Frankly 10mm is the only thing I have been reloading the last 12 months.

A 1911 IS definitely THE most comfortable and accurate gun in my hand. BTW, I don't think .40SW is lousy, but the 10mm is just a wider dynamic range. From plinking to burning hot 300 yard rounds, the 10mm is more versatile than .45ACP, sure not the mag cap of 9mm, but more than .45ACP. Here's where I am odd: I scored a very early SR1911 when they first came out several years back. It was an OK 1911, but nothing special. I traded it (I have other 1911's). But now I will be a buyer of the Ruger 10mm 1911.


Why not? I could, but this discussion was specifically of a ruger SR1911, so that's why I ask.

A 1911 10mm holds the same 8+1 as a .45ACP 1911.

If we're talking defensive situations that drove the round's creation, the big Glock holds 15... meanwhile as a bedstand gun, if I wanted such ballistics, you can now get 8 round ruger 357 magnum revolvers that are arguably more reliable. And I'm not sure if one necessarily wants those ballistics for in house defense.

For plinking, why would I want the cost of 10mm vs 9mm, .38spl, .45ACP or especially .22LR?

For home defense, where does the 10mm shine vs anything else? Notionally the shooting isn't going through car doors and barriers. If you want a bigger hole and more speed than 9mm/.38, why not .44mag/spl, or .45ACP +P to be reasonably speedy with a bigger hole? Id assume .45ACP shoots easier making for better follow ups.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be very interested in a S&W 610 if they ever started making them again. I don't mind half moon clips and think the round and its .40S&W sibling might be a better "bigger" (than 9mm; the Jeff Cooper concept) round than .44 spl/mag for certain situations. I have interest in the round, and my intent isn't to belittle it or guns made to handle it.

But I don't see my question as invalid, and lie a good discussion on the topic.

Originally Posted By: Astro14
It's a niche. The 1911 platform has its adherents. I love shooting my .45, for example. There are lots of 1911 die-hards.


Thought so. I can imagine its a good hunting round if one is so inclined. And I'm a fan of the 1911 in general. Ill likely have a Colt competition 9mm before the summer end. But even that gun is a good example. For serious target shooters, they offer a .38 super. You'd think if 10mm was going to help win marksmanship competitions, they would make a version in 10mm based upon the delta elite.

So I don't see many niches where something else couldnt work similarly well. Unless you already are very invested in .40/10mm, which Is expect most people are not yet at least. But I may be wrong. That's why aim generally interested.


It's a niche, no doubt about it. But it's a decently wide niche. I just don't understand your question, really and I am definitely not replying to be confrontational. I'm not saying the question is necessarily invalid, but I don't understand why any caliber needs some kind of justification - like tick X, tick Y, tick Z - yep it's a legitimate caliber. I guess I could say, let the market determine the need. For example, should we question all the seemingly odd rifle calibers? You mention self defense, fine. But I have a locked safe full of guns that are not for self defense. Hunting? A couple shotguns and rifles for that. People here have more than once mentioned they enjoy shooting 10mm, and sorry if I'm misinterpreting, but in some ways your replies read as if that's not enough justification for your standards - and again - I say why does any caliber have to pass your arbitrary standards to be legitimate?

At least twice (once early on, nearly fatal) the 10mm cartridge was declared dead. Then later in through the 200X's very low profile so to speak. But starting around 2010, with a bevy of new guns including long guns, and just much more ammo and finally multiple bulk ammo suppliers, the popularity is increasing. And it also has brought many more hand loaders into the mix. I think, like it or not 10mm is here to stay. It's an auto loading cartridge so it's not comparable on an even plain with rimmed revolver cartridges. It has a huge velocity advantage on the good old .45ACP, you can do everything .40SW does, plus much more energy and velocity. At any distance the energy difference is greater than 9mm. It's just a fun great cartridge to build guns for. A 9mm round will not run a DI AR. A 10mm round will. Fun gun to build and shoot. For me that alone is justification.

As for mag capacity, standard for .45ACP is 7+1 (as designed) and 10mm is 8+1. Many (most?) 1911 sellers have 8rnd mags for .45ACP and 9rnd for 10mm, not sure why Ruger is not supplying a 9 round magazine. When I bought my SR1911 5 years ago it came with a 7 and 8 round magazine. Of course you can buy 10 round magazines for both.

 

[JHZR2]

Pablo, Billt and Astro,

Thanks for the insight.

From what I had seen and known, it appeared to me that 10mm was both on the edge of what a SA pistol could be designed to handle, and, was on the edge of what could be easily handled by "average" shooters.

Im a fan of calibers that have a low end, lower powered and cheaper sibling, like the 10mm and .40, but that only is really viable with revolvers (and some claim the Glock).

Maybe 10mm is better in SD because the power can assure bullets opening up.

Ill admit I was surprised by the number of options on ammograb. More than .38/357 as an example.

Here's to hoping an S&W 610 restart occurs!

 

[billt460]

I remember back when Ruger made a .38-40 / 10 MM Blackhawk Convertible. I think it was distributed through Buckeye Sports. I wonder if a .40 S&W / 10 MM Blackhawk Convertible would sell today? I know they sell a ton of the 9 MM / .357 Magnum Blackhawk Convertibles. You can even get them in Stainless from Lipsey's.

http://rugerforum.net/ruger-single-action/40508-finally-got-ruger-10mm-auto.html

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
People here have more than once mentioned they enjoy shooting 10mm, and sorry if I'm misinterpreting, but in some ways your replies read as if that's not enough justification for your standards - and again - I say why does any caliber have to pass your arbitrary standards to be legitimate?


It doesn't. And in no way am I questioning the legitimacy of the caliber - Ive read the history and the reason for its existence.

Its just that if its more difficult to build a semi auto pistol to fire this, and if its not as well suited for home defense, and if other calibers are used for competition shooting because even if this one has a nice flat trajectory, it may be somewhat more difficult to handle... (note all ifs)

I was merely getting my head around why the interest and where is the real utility in this caliber versus others. Yup, there's a bunch of crazy handgun and rifle calibers. To me, that means more $$ on an already relatively expensive hobby, and for what practical benefit? That's all I was asking, where is the unique niche that it shines in better than all else, for the common user, not using it for the intended LE through cars and barriers type application... or where a .357 mag or similar that one might already have (speaking of myself) wouldn't fit the bill.

Nothing more, nothing less. I do wish convertible pistols were readily available... That would be pretty neat.

 

[Pablo]

Fair enough.

Just as a side note, I bought a Ruger Blackhawk 9mm/357Mag/38special convertible years ago. I used the 9mm cylinder exactly once and put it away. It's not super accurate (.355"v.357") and 38Special is better suited to plinking, easy to reload (9mm is a tapered case) and more accurate. In fact I just reload 357Magnum super light plinking so no cylinder crust. I saw a 10MM convertible at local gun show, I probably should have bought it (now a RARE bird), as the seller kept bringing it to every show.....but alas I had my 9mm convertible experience even though the 10mm version should be reasonably accurate.

 

[JHZR2]

Yeah I have a convertible .22LR/.22mag, which I hear is not as accurate due to the slightly larger size bullet that must be accommodated.

I like the concept of .44mag/.44spl, .357mag/.38spl, and now, 10mm/.40S&W...

It looks like the glock 20 will feed and operate on both, and retrofit barrels for an extra level of safety and accuracy (due to headspacing) are just $100.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
For plinking, why would I want the cost of 10mm vs 9mm, .38spl, .45ACP or especially .22LR?

This. I suppose if you like to "plink" with a 10mm so be it

For me it wouldn't make sense. I just don't "plink" any more.All I do is work on SD tactics. And 9mm is all I will ever carry or ever use.I do 800 to 1000+ rounds a month and I am 71 Y.O. ../just not enough time to play around amymore..lol.

And in my earlier days I shot .45 never enjoyed a 1911. But again..that's just me.

 

[Astro14]

I will add that the 10mm is about 80 years newer than the .45ACP - the .45 ACP was state of the art in 1904...but operates at far lower pressures than the 10mm, which generates significantly higher velocity from the higher pressure. Bullet cross section mattered more at those lower velocities. With proper bullet design, muzzle energy becomes more of a factor than cross section

For a given bullet weight, the 10mm is developing about a 40-50% muzzle energy advantage because of the velocity increase.

So, your question - why have one? Is analogous to asking - what does an M5 BMW do that my 3 series can't? Well, nothing, and...

everything...

 

[Astro14]

Al - I actually DO like plinking with my G20. Put the FBI load 10mm (which is what most of the offerings are - about 1050 FPS with a 180gr bullet - so, a .40 in a longer case) and the big pistol is quite mild. More mild than, say, my H&K USP compact in .40.

Load it up with the good stuff and it's still not bad. I've shot some punishing pistols.

The G20 isn't one of them.

So, yeah, load it up for bears, SD, or the range. The nice thing about a high performance machine is that you don't always have to use the performance - but it's nice to have should you want it.