Y'all willing to pay European prices for gas?

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Originally Posted By: 555
Originally Posted By: 555
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: 555
Marketing subterfuge.

The problem with E85 is that it relies on government subsidization(is that a word?)to keep the price low.



Ok, I'll bite. Would you outline the actual subsidies for ethanol that are paid to the Chicago Market Board that affects ethanol prices? Ethanol prices are dictated by the same market as any other fuel. Ethanol is traded and bid on. The producers have nothing to say in that. Even then, there have been no direct government subsidies for ethanol production since 2011. They were eliminated that year.

So many myths. So little time.
I will look into it. Thanks for the info. Travelling at the moment. Miss my keyboard.

You are correct about the subsidies ending in 2011 but the tax incentives continue. I will revisit with more info when possible.

A link with some useful tables and what I thought was an interesting "Forbes" article.
Thanks for your patience.
http://www.taxpayer.net/library/article/...-based-biofuels
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/201...p/#5003d2d05ae1
 
And the oil industry gets all kinds of tax incentives too. Beware of shill's for big oil trying to suppress a competing product. It comes right out and says that in Forbes.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
What's cheaper? Driving into the city or living in the city and walking?


I'd have to look again, even though it'd be a complete non-starter for my wife (as we like the school system we are in etc). But usually it costs more to buy a house in the city, rent is higher, taxes are higher, so on and so forth. And quality of life can be lower: higher crime, lower air quality, etc. I would also lose the ability to hike and bike at will (I can go out my door and do those things willy-nilly).
 
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Without wanting to be overly provocative, I've never understood why the US, with it's gargantuan national debt ($US 18.96 trillion according to Wikipedia), doesn't slowly but steadily introduce European-style fuel taxes.


Just thinking to myself, what this country needs is higher taxes, particularly consumption taxes like these that hit the lower income people the hardest.

NOT!!!!
 
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
Public debt has no simple 1 answer solution, i'm no economist but there is no magic cure which has no negative consequences.


Government != Public this where the cardinal difference hides itself. Distrust of Gov was the founding principle, even though the Gov is a necessary evil. We tried to restrain the Gov, but things got out of hand. Similar to privatising profits and making losses public. Bankers own the Gov again, not the public.
 
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Have you heard of Wikipedia? It's very good. You should read it sometime.


Is this where your knowledge comes from? Oh dear! No denying of a leading role in Scientific Quest on part of the old culture. You just happened to be saved twice in the previous century. The sun would never come down over the British Empire in 1916, but just one generation it took to stand with your hand out. Which can happen anywhere, of course...
Wiki or not, it's so convenient to spit in the face of the ones who guarantee your security.



Right Mr Erudite, 1961, very height of the Cuban missile crisis, the world's on the brink of a real life, full nuclear exchange...so the first Russian nukes are going to hit who first, the UK or the US? Also the first nukes that drop on the USSR come from where, GB of the US?? You may not like the answer but we would have gotten vapourised first simply because we were closer to the USSR, but not before British Vulcans and Valiants had taken off to drop a whole load of nukes on the Sovs (again long before your B-52's had got a punch in). So who was guaranteeing who's security exactly??? Looks to me that we were guaranteeing yours!

And today, you're guaranteeing our security from whom exactly??? The Russians? Don't make me laugh. The Chinese? North Korea? Actually the country that might represent a real and present danger is the one country that has more arms than the rest of the world put together and is beginning to look very unstable. Now who could that be do you think??


First nukes would likely have come from the sea: ballistic missile submarines George Washington, Patrick Henry, Theodore Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, Robert E. Lee (Washington-class), Ethan Allen, Sam Houston, Thomas Edison, John Marshall, Thomas Jefferson (Ethan Allen-class), Lafayette, and Alexander Hamilton, (Lafayette-class).
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Have you heard of Wikipedia? It's very good. You should read it sometime.


Is this where your knowledge comes from? Oh dear! No denying of a leading role in Scientific Quest on part of the old culture. You just happened to be saved twice in the previous century. The sun would never come down over the British Empire in 1916, but just one generation it took to stand with your hand out. Which can happen anywhere, of course...
Wiki or not, it's so convenient to spit in the face of the ones who guarantee your security.



Right Mr Erudite, 1961, very height of the Cuban missile crisis, the world's on the brink of a real life, full nuclear exchange...so the first Russian nukes are going to hit who first, the UK or the US? Also the first nukes that drop on the USSR come from where, GB of the US?? You may not like the answer but we would have gotten vapourised first simply because we were closer to the USSR, but not before British Vulcans and Valiants had taken off to drop a whole load of nukes on the Sovs (again long before your B-52's had got a punch in). So who was guaranteeing who's security exactly??? Looks to me that we were guaranteeing yours!

And today, you're guaranteeing our security from whom exactly??? The Russians? Don't make me laugh. The Chinese? North Korea? Actually the country that might represent a real and present danger is the one country that has more arms than the rest of the world put together and is beginning to look very unstable. Now who could that be do you think??


First nukes would likely have come from the sea: ballistic missile submarines George Washington, Patrick Henry, Theodore Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, Robert E. Lee (Washington-class), Ethan Allen, Sam Houston, Thomas Edison, John Marshall, Thomas Jefferson (Ethan Allen-class), Lafayette, and Alexander Hamilton, (Lafayette-class).



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19932406
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
It is so far past time we end NATO.


Agreed.

And that would help the U.S. how? Putin would have the Soviet Union back to Germany by now without NATO.
 
Lol. This mithomania about Putin/Russia is getting old. Are you aware of military power of France, Germany, Italy and even Poland? Can you imagine what Germany could do if they wish to?.

Who defended Yugoslavia from Soviet real threat in the 60s? NATO? Sure not.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
It is so far past time we end NATO.


Agreed.

And that would help the U.S. how? Putin would have the Soviet Union back to Germany by now without NATO.


NATO was formed to defend the european members, not the U.S. Nothing about the agreement has ever helped the U.S.
 
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Lol. This mithomania about Putin/Russia is getting old. Are you aware of military power of France, Germany, Italy and even Poland? Can you imagine what Germany could do if they wish to?.

Who defended Yugoslavia from Soviet real threat in the 60s? NATO? Sure not.


Did I miss the part where Yugoslavia was a member of NATO? Perhaps the German army has undergone a major transformation since the Soviet Union collapsed, but all I saw of them prior to that time was a token conscript army made possible by the promise of defense by the U.S.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: supton
[ to minimize my car usage, but ultimately gave into the siren call of having it all: live in the country, drive into the city for work. Why not: economically it works out.

Quote:
Also this is slowly but surely turning into a typical USA vs Europe **** measuring contest...


Pretty much. It's a shame that we can't compare admit strengths/weaknesses without it turning into a competition.



What's cheaper? Driving into the city or living in the city and walking?

There's a reason we started a war with these people. We officially don't think they have any strengths. Spin it however you want, there is a fundamental problem with a blood line ruling a country for thousands of years.



Walking is better for you than driving an hour every day. Where do the health care costs of the obesity epidemic get factored in to that equation? How much does it cost us?

Getting back on topic, I would not be opposed to moderately higher gas taxes, but only if ALL the money went into state and federal transportation budgets. As it stands now, Texas is building toll roads all over the place, so I'm already paying user fees for those highways, may as well make them free so we can pay at the pump.
 
I have been meaning to ask how do you pay for roading if you don't pay taxes - so you have road tolls. There are a couple of toll roads in NZ, and I've only paid a toll on one of them. When the Auckland Harbour Bridge was built it was a toll to use it for decades, then when the bridge was paid for it became a free trip.

I guess the biggest gripe with fuel tax for roading is that most of it gets spent mainly in one big city. So there is talk about extra fuel tax for Auckland fuel, tolls or a charge of some sort for peak time use.

Our diesel is tax free at the pumps, and you pay a seperate Road User Charge (RUC) for the mileage you do...a sticker on the windcreen showing mileage paid for. Saves having road and off road diesel, everyone pays the same price for the fuel, those who use it one the road pay a seperate road tax. So we have both systems here. Having had diesel vehicles before, I prefer to pay at the pump.
 
Yes, paying at the pump vs toll roads or other extra charges is less of a nuisance, AND if you drive with economy in mind you can reap the benefits, not so with the other flat rate charges...
 
One of my gripes is paying fuel tax, which is supposed to go for roads, and pay toll road on top of that. If on the toll road, there should be exemption on fuel tax. Double taxation is government approved theft.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
One of my gripes is paying fuel tax, which is supposed to go for roads, and pay toll road on top of that. If on the toll road, there should be exemption on fuel tax. Double taxation is government approved theft.


Try Oz...
one of the highest personal income tax rates around...to pay for common stuff.
Fuel excise...to pay for the roads, although it's straight into consolidated revenue.
Goods and Services Tax 10%...over the top of the excise.

Then they put in toll roads, and sell them into private ownership.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
One of my gripes is paying fuel tax, which is supposed to go for roads, and pay toll road on top of that. If on the toll road, there should be exemption on fuel tax. Double taxation is government approved theft.


Try Oz...
one of the highest personal income tax rates around...to pay for common stuff.
Fuel excise...to pay for the roads, although it's straight into consolidated revenue.
Goods and Services Tax 10%...over the top of the excise.

Then they put in toll roads, and sell them into private ownership.


Sounds like Ontario. We've lost billions since we sold off the 407. What a moronic idea that was.
 
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