Fram TG vs Ultra: engine noise

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Did an oil change on my Liberty last Friday and have since noticed a slight bottom end knock upon startup. Not the usual start up rattle thing that happens if it sits for a few days. Can be warm or cold. Goes away after I assume full oil pressure is reached. Anything different about an Ultra that could cause it? Dead silent otherwise. Never noticed it with the Tough Guard.
 
It could simply be that the new filter is defective. The drain back valve may not be seating properly. Nothing to do with the change of brand or model of filter. or you did not notice this noise before.
 
I'm sure it has nothing to do with the oil or filter used.

I also notice different sounds after fresh oil changes for a few minutes during the warm-up period -- kind of like you're dipping things in a fluid. I don't know the reason but it's probably because the oil is so fresh and therefore there is so little boundary friction and it's a good thing.

In addition the VII starts shearing immediately after fresh oil starts being used for the first time. Therefore, perhaps a fresh oil with completely unsheared VII sounds differently.
 
Oil filters don't cause main bearing knock. Worn out main bearings cause main bearing knock.
 
It might be worthwhile to swap that filter out. The Ultra would still be good if you can use it elsewhere.


"In addition the VII starts shearing immediately after fresh oil starts being used for the first time. Therefore, perhaps a fresh oil with completely unsheared VII sounds differently."

Huh....What? Normally, a new oil change sounds quieter. Are you saying the sounds are the oil shearing?
 
Originally Posted By: PimTac
It might be worthwhile to swap that filter out. The Ultra would still be good if you can use it elsewhere.
"In addition the VII starts shearing immediately after fresh oil starts being used for the first time. Therefore, perhaps a fresh oil with completely unsheared VII sounds differently."
Huh....What? Normally, a new oil change sounds quieter. Are you saying the sounds are the oil shearing?

No, you never understand what I am saying.
wink.gif


Unsheared and sheared VII molecules have different sound-damping affects. Therefore, a fresh oil may sound differently. In addition less friction of fresh oil also results in less sound damping.

Of course, when an oil is really deteriorated after a long OCI, it will start sounding differently as well.
 
Yep it's an XG3600. I'd be shocked if this had any engine issues...like I said it was fine before. I have about 80 miles on the oil so far. So it might go away?

If it were doing it even once warmed up I'd be concerned.
 
I'm not a science major but doing 5 minutes of research on the web regarding molecular sounds, I read that you need fine instruments. These are not something the human ear can pick up.

Let's not derail the thread further. The OP has a serious issue and we should concentrate on solving that. I still say swap the filter. Nothing will be wasted as he can save the Ultra since it has less than 100 miles on it. If a engine starts knocking right after a oil change, that is what I would suspect first. There is too much coincidence here.
 
Originally Posted By: PimTac
I'm not a science major but doing 5 minutes of research on the web regarding molecular sounds, I read that you need fine instruments. These are not something the human ear can pick up.

Let's not derail the thread further. The OP has a serious issue and we should concentrate on solving that. I still say swap the filter. Nothing will be wasted as he can save the Ultra since it has less than 100 miles on it. If a engine starts knocking right after a oil change, that is what I would suspect first. There is too much coincidence here.

Again, I'm not talking about molecular sound -- if there is such a thing and, in fact, there isn't. Sound is propagated through a media. The molecules in the media and the structure of these molecules affect how the sound is propagated. It's just like you don't expect wood and steel to propagate the sound in the same manner.

One of the claims of this patent (link) is that the use of a VII in an oil reduces the noise. I'm not saying that this is entirely the reason why a fresh oil sounds differently than a used oil but it could be one of the reasons.

We don't know if the OP has a major issue. He describes it as a "slight bottom-end knock", which could be anything, and it goes away after a while. A quality oil filter like Fram Ultra shouldn't be an issue and there is really nothing in it to be defective to cause engine knocking. It's not an ADBV issue as he said. But then if he's really worried, he can temporarily replace it with a cheap oil filter and see what happens and then put it back.
 
I think I'm going to try swapping back to a Tough Guard or even a Wix.

That new oil thing intrigues me though, I've never noticed that with fresher oil but up until I joined here I can't say I ever would've noticed and maybe I just haven't noticed in years past. Do you guys think there's any harm in letting it ride for a bit and seeing what happens?
 
Originally Posted By: HoosierJeeper
I think I'm going to try swapping back to a Tough Guard or even a Wix.


Good idea and I'd be curious to see if the noise persists after a new filter is put on. Just ST from WM for less than $3. Peace of mind, priceless.
 
Is that ST one a good filter for a 3-4k interval?

I'm trying to figure out if I should drain to oil too...I'm thinking if I pull the filter that'll make a huge mess.
 
Shouldn't make much of a mess at all. No need to warm up before hand. Yes, the filter is good for 5000 miles. Use with confidence. Well made, no tears to be concerned about.

I'd leave the oil in.
 
Yes, ST filters are fine for up to around 5000 miles. They are basically NAPA Pro-select/O'Reilly MicroGard filters.

You will loose a little oil, but no need to do a complete drain and fill, just top off with a qt or so.
 
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