Nissan RB25det Neo oil questions

[NEO25DET]

Hello Everybody,

My good friend told me to take a look at this site when I started asking oil related questions. With that being said this is my first post and thanks for having me. Ok, so I just purchased an RB25det NEO for my Nissan s14. With previous engines I always either ran Mobil 1 or Rotella. This is my first RB series engine so I want to use some better oil.
-I live in Arizona so 120 degree weather is a thing..
-The car is not my daily driver and will see mostly track time, with a little street time as well.
-I will be drifting it pretty regularly(every month or so)
-The engine will be stock to start with

What I want to know:
-What are some good options for my application(for oil)
-What filter would work best? Is WIX ok?

I've been back and forth on a few different engine oils such as (BradPenn, AMS oil, and Royal purple)
I like the fact that I can get royal purple locally but doesn't mean it's the best option.

Any input is very appreciated, Thanks for looking.

 

[FlyNavyP3]

If you want to run a Boutique oil like AMSOIL, Brad Penn, or Royal Purple I would run Redline before any of those. However for what you're doing off the shelf Mobil 1 should be more than sufficient.

 

[NEO25DET]

Thanks for the reply FlyNavyP3, I have just heard that Mobil 1 changed their formula and isn't as good as it use to be.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: NEO25DET
Thanks for the reply FlyNavyP3, I have just heard that Mobil 1 changed their formula and isn't as good as it use to be.

How did you hear the formula changed? The only significant change in their lineup is that the 0W-40 product no longer carries Longlife-01 certification. But if you don't have a BMW that isn't of much importance.

If you are tracking the car and want a boutique oil as was mentioned, then I'd say Redline as well. Royal Purple will not get you anything more than will M1 or Castrol.

 

[RooflessVW]

It no longer carries LL01 and it is now GTL based - formula change. It is still an excellent oil.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: NEO25DET
Thanks for the reply FlyNavyP3, I have just heard that Mobil 1 changed their formula and isn't as good as it use to be.

In addition to what's already been said, formulations do change regularly. This is nothing new. Secondly, I have never heard anyone among the public say that a reformulation is for the better. It's always for the worse, somehow. When M1 0w-40 uses Visom, it's to be cheap. Then, a switch back to PAO led to complaints it wasn't as shear resistant. Now, there's another nebulous problem. CJ-4 isn't as good as CI-4. CK-4 isn't as good as CJ-4. SN/GF-5 were just incremental changes over SM/GF-4, which supposedly neutered motor oils in the first place. RP watered down their formula. Amsoil watered down their formula. It's amazing that engines still run with the reputation of stuff on the shelf.

 

[JFAllen]

Hello NEO25. I live in Aus and am very familiar with import japanese engines.

A good tip with an import RB (remember even a NEO is going to be close to 15 years old) is to pull the cam cover and sump off before installing it in the car. This well allow you to check for sludge or any other nasties.

Now a common misconception is that you 'Need'to run thicker oils in hot climates. I'm not sure how engine thermostats work in the USA, but in Australia, they keep engine coolant temps below 100C (usually 80-90C / 175-195F,) even if you're out in the desert in the middle of summer. Where I work in central Australia on mine sites we thrash Turbo V8's up and down the mine all day every day in 45C+ temps all summer long, no issues. Only time you get overheats is if some idiot ran though a mud bath and clogged the rad up with dirt... Point being is, with a well engineered cooling system, regardless of whether you're in Alaska in the middle of winter or crossing death valley in July, your engine will be between 80-90C.

Now it is true that your engine may heat up more quickly in Arazona (it takes less time to heat oil form 40C-100C than from -20-100C,) but if you're getting oil temps in the +120C range (250F) then you have other issues that need dealing with. As running the oil above 120C constantly is a recipe for oil breakdown and engine failure. That's why your RB25 will have an oil cooler tied into the cooling system. To keep oil temps stable and similar to coolant temps. As your oil is also responsible for removing heat from components in the engine. It will look a alot like this:

Thus there is no reason you cannot run a 0W oil. all the 'XW' rating is, is a measure of it's cold pumping viscosity. It does-not impact it's operating temperature (measured at 100C.) OW oils provide superior cold start protection as they are able to flow more easily to all areas of the engine more quickly on a 'cold start.' (Cold start being when you start the car after it's been off for a few hours or more.)

As to recommendations. Nissan spec'd a 5W30 (SL I think) from the factory back in the day on a fresh engine. And all things being equal (assuming the engine is in good shape,) that's a good place to start. However given that Japanese import engines are often known to not have had the easiest life (lots of stop start city traffic,) That's why it's a good idea to pull the cam over and sump and have a look.

My personal recommendation would be for Pennzoil Plat 0W40 or 5W40. (The 0W40 is the same oil used by CART-regulations in Pennzoil sponsored in Indy car. Indy cars must your oil available to the public.)

I personally run Nulon (Aussie brand) 0W40 (PAO/Ester) or Shell Helix Ultra 5W40 (GTL) in my GTi-R SR20 Pulsar. Helix Ultra 5W40 in my 450HP CA18DET. While 0W30 Helix ultra in my Saab 9-5 Turbo. All year, across central Australia in the Summer, at the track or going skiing in the winter. Modern high tech synth oils are amazingly capable. Don't run a XW60 bunker oil all it will do is reduce your HP and fuel economy while offering no tangible benefits. If you do notice poor oil pressure (usually as a result of warn bearings) that's when it's time to look at moving up a viscosity grade (too take up the slack.) But if you've got rock solid oil pressure, stick close to the OEM specs. The OEM specs are there because that's what the OEM bearing clearances are designed to work with.

Enjoy the extra grunt and reduction in handling that an RB25 will bring to your S14 chassis

Regards
Jordan

 

[NEO25DET]

Thank you all for the replies. @JFAllen I'm sorry for the confusion. I meant I live in a place where the weather is hot(120 degrees Fahrenheit) and yes I always thought a thicker oil in hotter temps were better to a point but I guess not. I haven't installed the engine yet just did a refresh on the engine ie. All gaskets, water pump, timing belt and all seals and it all looked pretty good still. Both of my buddies, one with a Neo and one with an rb26, both run royal purple high zinc formula and swear by it. Kind of want to know if there's any truth to that? I just want to get the right oil for a long engine life. I will check into that Pennzoil though. Thanks again for the replies.

 

[1JZ_E46]

I run a similar engine in my drift car (1JZ). If you are tracking the car at all, I would get an oil that is designed around track use. Royal Purple HPS has a solid add-pack and is a true synthetic (able to handle extreme heat). Turbo engine + AZ heat needs a robust oil. I wouldn't run anything less than a x-W40 weight. Also, can't go wrong with a Wix filter. See if there is a larger filter that will work in the stock location. I know with JZ engines you can run a filter that is much taller and it still fits just fine.

 

[NEO25DET]

Thanks for the reply! Yeah and the great thing about it is I can get it locally. I will look into a larger oil filter as well. Thank you for the info.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: NEO25DET
Thanks for the reply! Yeah and the great thing about it is I can get it locally. I will look into a larger oil filter as well. Thank you for the info.


Looks like the RB uses the same oil filter dimensions as a JZ (3/4-16 thread size, 2.7" diameter gasket). Use the WIX 51516XP. Slightly taller than stock. You could also use the 51515XP if you have the room for it (it's big). I can't fit it due to motor mount clearance issues.

 

[JFAllen]

Hello NEO25. I got you live in Arizona where it's hot as [censored]. That's why I provided the information I did. In short, if your car isn't overheating, then (other than the pistons and valves) all components should be operating at or near 100C (but no higher than 127C, the boiling point of 50/50 glycol coolant.)

Historically when Synthetics were not available to the public and American engines were iron on iron (that often overheated in summer due to poor engineering and manufacturing,) 'summer' and 'winter' oils were recommended. Chemists were unable to develop products that were able to pump well enough at low temperatures in winter, yet stable enough at the higher operating temperatures experienced in summer (especially in parts of the country you’re familiar with where ambient temps were often +40C.) Modern engines are 'significantly' better at regulating their thermal stress. That's why you'll basically never see a well maintained modern engines coolant gauge move from its usual position. Even in the middle of summer, stuck in traffic with the AC pumping.

I'm glad to hear the engine appears to be in good working order. They're tuff as nuts and when tuned correctly will provide with many happy skids.

As I said before a premium quality XW40 will be the way to fly; or a XW30 that has a HTST above 3.5 (Simply look for oils that meet DEXOS2 or A3/B4 and you will know they're good to go.) If you’ve not had a turbocharged car before just remember to never shut the engine down when the turbo is glowing red, best to let it idle down for a few minutes so as to not cook the oil in the bearings. Water cooled turbo’s tolerate this better (like you have,) but it’s still not ideal.

Regards
Jordan