Best SAE30 weight oil?

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Agree with all of the above !
Thin oil drains out of the timing chain tensioner too i believe.

I am slowly creeping from 0wxx to sae 30 hd

not there all the way as i have taken a small pause at 10w30.

Next is the blend of qsud 10w30 with qsad sae hd 30.

QSAD sae hd 30 been running in my mower for last 2 years and the mower really is used to clear a lot of heavy brush along with its intended purpose.
One tough oil.

qsad sae 30 hd from sds might just be all gtl.(here come the lectures. It has a pour point of -30c/-22f.
It is rated sn.
It is $3.49 after rebates at menard.



I don't think it can all be GTL or Group III as those base oils are very limited in viscosity availability. 4, 6, 8 cSt and I'm not even sure about 8 cSt..

 

[merconvvv]

I recall a discussion on pyb 10w30 when it had noack of 4.3 or something on pqia and several members were speculating it was straight gtl. (I think so dont hold me to it

 

[BrocLuno]

I don't think it was straight GTL, but a fair dose for sure

As far as corrosion control, I take it that some folks have never looked inside a used engine ... There is no surface that is not covered with oil. Unless liquid water got in there from some source, there is little possibility of corrosion.

And what corrosion may occur is usually on the cylinder walls above the ring pack. The exact area that seems to be best addressed with SAE 30 and it's residual film ...

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: userfriendly
That's what Garak said.

I was referring to a specific one, of course, that Chevron SAE 20. That doesn't apply to all monogrades, of course. Obviously, though, there are other monogrades with additive packages that are totally unsuitable for ordinary gasoline engines. Monogrades designed for two stroke diesels only should never be used in a gasoline engine. There are marine lubes one shouldn't use in a gasser. And, one of my favourite parts stores has a shelf full of Castrol ND 30, which isn't going into any gasoline engine I own.

 

[merconvvv]

Garak so you are ok with qs sae 30 sn?
I am tempted to sent it in for an voa !

You run qsgb 10w30? Is that now qsad?

Thanks brocluno for the insight on corrosion.

I have heard people say not to change oil frquently because new oil has additives that burn off initially and dirty the engine. So for the majority of the miles one is driving around with depleted added packs? So it gets me to think that monogrades with their not overly added additives might run cleaner. And ofcourse sae 30 sn will have great oil film strength too.

 

[BrocLuno]

Add Paks mostly get used up in a somewhat linear fashion. There may be some quick'ish formation of tribofilms in the first say 2,500 miles, than things settle down until the TBN is depleted. For any quality oil in adecnt engine, that's usually beyond 10,000 miles.

We change early because of possible fuel dilution (Carb'd and Direct Injections engines), peace of mind and the fact that we may be under the vehicle anyw2ay doing other work, so why not. Or, because of seasonal changes and say cold weather starts, etc.

 

[Garak]

I would trust QS SAE 30, for use where applicable, of course. It's not one of the oddballs I listed that would be problematic for gasoline engines. It wouldn't be a lot of fun for me up here in the winter, but aside from that, it's not a concern. Yes, QSGB=Quaker State Green Bottle=QSAD. Of course, with Pennzoil's and Quaker State's new bottling scheme, PYB and QSGB don't exactly help matters any longer in trying to determine what someone is using.

 

[userfriendly]

I don't think a mono-grade with SN on the label means anything, other than it makes people feel better about using it in gasoline engines.
However, I know of one 3500 passenger van with a 305 V8 that went over 1 million miles on LPG using SAE 30 CH/SJ and 10k mile oil changes.
These engines with filter only took 4.5 to 5 US quarts.

HD mono-grades are too, unlikely to publish API approvals, but instead, those of specific engine and transmission manufactures.
I doubt if there is one light duty pick up truck or late model car that recommends both API SN or SM in a mono-grade,
so what would be the point of paying for the latest licensing category, when quasi obsolete ones are free?

The Diesel classification CF-2 means less that it did 30 years ago, as most Diesel engine oils now are low ash, and 2 stroke engines are not all that common anymore on the road.
In fact, you would have to look to find a CF-2 nowadays. Also, CF-2 doesn't necessarily mean that the oil is lacking in anti wear additives, like some people imply,
just the detergent is low ash or ashless.

As BrocLuno said, some of those engines have a bazillion miles/hours on them and are still running. That would not happen without a robust anti wear package, CF-2 or otherwise.
I wouldn't lose sleep over slightly lower base numbers found in mono-grade engine oils, after all its tbn retention that counts, and different additive package types reflect that.
Lastly, if this is your 1st time using a mono, it may turn brown or black and the engine might smell hot as the oil un-sticks the rings and cleans up the mess left behind from years of
using VII containing multi grade engine oils.

 

[Garak]

I really wouldn't have a huge problem with something being CH/SJ, either, or even with just a bunch of "recommended for" stuff, provided it's from one of the majors. It's just that the SAE 20 Chevron example was a bit weak, it would seem, and I'm sure there's a legacy reason of some sort for that. With respect to CF-2, yes, it would be pretty hard to accidentally buy that, particularly in quantities that would constitute only one or two passenger vehicle oil changes. Nonetheless, some of our experts here have cautioned against using those in gassers. You're not going to find that in 5 L jugs, nor on Walmart's shelf.

 

[userfriendly]

Garak;
You mentioned the 6.5 base number of the Delo 400 SAE 20 being a problem. Would it be a problem in SAEs 10W & 50 too?
Yes, the primary target use of Delo engine oil is of course the acronym; Diesel engine lubricating oil. But wait.
Why would chevron lower the base number of Delo 10W, 20 & 50, using the new CK-4 additive technology from Oronite while leaving
the base number high in SAEs 30 & 40 with the old additive package? Would it have something to do with ULSD on land
and not ultra low at sea, where Delo SAE 30 & 40 might find itself? Otherwise, what was Chevron thinking, or not?

www.oronite.com

 

[Garak]

It's really not a big problem, but I'm used to seeing HDEOs at E7, E9 TBN levels. Shell Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30 is at 11. Like I mentioned, I'm sure Chevron had some method to their madness. Nonetheless, a CK-4 lubricant or a CK-4 type package doesn't necessarily significantly drop TBN, particularly if the aim is to maintain E7, E9.

I'm getting a headache with the distributors here. Between Imperial Oil having increasingly bizarre package sizes and the Shell guy not even knowing what Shell's lineup is, I'm not having a good time.

 

[Red91]

I discovered an American brand of HD 30 called Starfire HD 30, which list CF-2 and CF/SG, recommended for diesel and gasoline engines. Seems like it would be the perfect shop oil for the old/high mileage vehicles we get through the shop.

 

[BrocLuno]

Prolly so

 

[Red91]

I'm supposed to be hearing from a local distributor today about it. I like keeping 30wt in stock because, to me, it's the perfect oil for old/high mileage cars. I've also looked at Wolf's Head and Cam2, but haven't reached out to the company. Right now I have four cases of Warren HD 30 on hand, but it only carries the gasoline SN spec. I may email Wolf's Head today and see if they can hook me up with a distributor. It's always good to have options.

 

[jeff78]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
OK, so I live in a benign climate. No need for cold flow precautions. So I could live with straight 30 if it had modern good add-paks. So what is the best straight 30 out there?


VR1 is available in SAE 30, 40, 50, and 60, but might be tough (impossible?) to get in Cali. Will Amazon ship VR1 to you?

 

[SR5]

The two mineral SAE 30's I was looking at in Australia:

Penrite Mono Truck SAE 30 (API CF/ SG, ACEA E1)
KV40 = 84 cSt
KV100 = 10.8 cSt
TBN = 9.4
Zinc = 1220 ppm

Caltex Delo Silver SAE 30 (API CF / SJ)
KV40 = 90 cSt
KV100 = 11.5 cSt
TBN = 6.8
Zinc = 940 ppm

(The Delo Silver data is from the Australian spec sheet.)

Out of these two, which would people pick for PCMO applications ?
I live in a warm climate, so cold starting is never a problem.

 

[BrocLuno]

Originally Posted By: jeff78
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
OK, so I live in a benign climate. No need for cold flow precautions. So I could live with straight 30 if it had modern good add-paks. So what is the best straight 30 out there?


VR1 is available in SAE 30, 40, 50, and 60, but might be tough (impossible?) to get in Cali. Will Amazon ship VR1 to you?


Nope. Lord knows I've tried every way I can think of. Have to actually drive to Reno from Bay Area or Vegas from LA area to bring back cases...

That's why I switched to Delo 400 15W-30 SD (severe duty). Easily obtained and no one is yelling at me about harmful levels of whatever

You can sometimes get Brad Penn (Penn One) or Joe Gibbs Driven shipped in. And you can buy all the Red Line you want, if your wallet is deep enough ... Ditto Motul 300V ...

 

[Red91]

I contacted Wolf's Head today, and I am supposed to be hearing from the regional sales manager in the next few days. They offer an SN/CF HD 30. If the price is decent, I may slowly start replacing everything in stock with it. Goodness knows I'm not selling any synthetic.

 

[merconvvv]

Garak
Is there any reason why you run qsgb 10w30 and not qsud 10w30?
Is it cost or some technical reason?
Trying to learn

Thanks

 

[jeff78]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno

That's why I switched to Delo 400 15W-30 SD (severe duty). Easily obtained and no one is yelling at me about harmful levels of whatever

Delo 400 is apparently available in monogrades, have you tried them?


Quote:
And you can buy all the Red Line you want, if your wallet is deep enough ...


Yeah, funny isn't it? I'm pretty sure Red Line oils have a lot more harmful whatevers than VR1. Don't know about the car stuff, but for their motorcycle oils they spec over 2000 ppm for zinc and phosphorous.