Oil for heavily tuned 335d (w/o ecology)

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M1 0/40 is really a heavy 30. I could absolutely see a tuned LS motor beating the tar out of that oil on a track day.

M1 15/50 under-performing is no big shock. That oil is a total knockdown. Just this past week we dealt with a boat that had 9 psi hot oil pressure on M1 15/50. Changed the oil to GTX 20/50 just to see what would happen, and hot oil pressure jumped up to 40 psi.

My favorite engines to test heat shearing on are Volvo Penta small block engines. No oil cooler at all. Dump the throttle, and the remote oil filter mounts get hot enough to burn bare skin. Nearly hot enough to do it through gloves.
 
DoubleWasp is on the money - 0W/40 is like sewing machine oil in a boosted small block once its hot.

I even understand GM has been recommending Mobil 1 15W50 in their boosted Corvette motor since 2014 for track use and is not dissimilar my brothers current LS2 engine setup albeit with turbos. Of course those with actual experience knew that a heavier weight oil was required in demanding conditions, but perhaps GM was previously given a bum steer with the lighter weight oils from someone in this thread clutching a UOA telling GM's engineering department "the oil is fine and its the engine that's broken"
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https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4240223/all/GM_recommends_Mobil_1_15w50_fo

As DoubleWasp alludes to, the 15w/50 is also known as a shear monster in demanding conditions and I spose it will sheer to a 30 weight which is about where GM seems to like to see oil viscosity. The 15w/50 EP was supposed to have better credentials from what I could gather but I understand its no longer available.

Owning a boat myself with a couple of big block 496's, DoubleWasp also makes some valid observations regarding hot oil pressure of synthetic oils in demanding conditions which we've also seen in boosted street modded cars that are tracked. Over on the Offshore Only forum, and although exxy, Mobil 1 V Twin 20/50 comes highly recommended and from my casual observation of UOA's it seems to be about the only Mobil 1 oil that holds its viscosity to spec between oil changes of any decent period. It is also a favourite over on the Rennlist forum with the air cooled Porche's too.

Although unpopular it would seem, I still stick to my original recommendation to the OP of a 10W or 15W oil if the car is going to be tracked and not need an annual freshen up.
 
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Plucked an interesting excerpt out of the above thread link.

Coming into this very late, so just some random thoughts. I own a 2011 Corvette that I track as often as possible.

It's not unusual for an accomplished driver on even a warm summer day to drive oil temperatures to 300 degrees in a 20 minute session in a C6 without additional cooling. When you roll into the pits and the oil is still that hot, oil pressures were be in the lower single digits, so it's been long known that a higher viscosity oil is necessary for engine protection during serious track work, despite what the owner's manual may have said back then.
 
I have to say that my advice re 5W40 was for road driving in Poland for all seasons.
If I were going to do full load application like racing on a track and I was worried about shearing I would use straight 40 or even 50 (for a truck maybe Delvac 1640 or 1650 or Fuchs Titan Universal HD 40 or even 50) and warm up for a couple of minutes first.

Charlie
 
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Does any company make a synthetic 20w-50 pcmo? If Mobil 15w-50 shears or just thins out that much I would give serious consideration to the lowest noack 20w-50 I could find.


I don't like the larger spreads between cold and hot ratings. Jmo
 
Originally Posted By: juggernaut
I've no doubt race teams use it where every once of hp counts, winning is everything, and engines are built to exacting tolerances and constantly tweaked as needed, plenty of airflow through various custom coolers, and with annual budgets into the millions. On this stage I wouldn't be surprised if some were using lower viscosity oil.

But we're talking street cars here where we expect sensibly modified engines to live throughout our ownership with some track days.....and where most people on this forum quibble about the cost of 6 litres of sythetic gas oil once a year.

Perhaps, but I think you're exaggerating the budgets of some of these teams. Nonetheless, the issue I'm having is what seems to be a bit of hyperbole here. Either that, or the engine, indeed, has problems. Zero hot oil pressure with a 40 grade, and 40 grade oil being like sewing machine oil - you see my point.

SilverFusion: Royal Purple also makes a synthetic 20w-50.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak

Perhaps, but I think you're exaggerating the budgets of some of these teams. Nonetheless, the issue I'm having is what seems to be a bit of hyperbole here. Either that, or the engine, indeed, has problems. Zero hot oil pressure with a 40 grade, and 40 grade oil being like sewing machine oil - you see my point


Garak I defer you to this Porche oil related thread which harks back to 2007 being the same era my brother experienced no oil pressure and I experienced unacceptable valvetrain wear with Mobil 1 oils.

This thread has it all:

Low oil pressure lights coming on.
Unacceptable engine wear;
Grenading motors;
Strong differences in opinion.

Changed to another brand of oil - problems solved......funny that
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https://rennlist.com/forums/928-forum/372882-yet-another-engine-viscocity-question.html

I guess if oil companies are happy to make and market low weight oils, owners are happy to use it in cars that are tracked and local mechanics are happy to rebuild motors.....everyone's happy
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Post 83:

I know, i do feel a sense of obligation to show my results and experiences with the extreme use of my 928.

the "many years" of tracking, probably werent alll in 928s, were there? because i can name 15 grenaded 928s that have used Mobil 1.

THE only information i have been using is the lack of oil pressure when using mobil 1 on 3 different 928s. (yes, this caused the oil light to come on) when the oil was changed to amzoil, the issue went AWAY.

i use 20-50 Amzoil racing oil. (same results with kendal 20-50 racing oil as well or 20/50 redline)

companies have been using and misusing statistics for years. im not only showing a statistic, but an actual difference that is visible seen by looking at your oil pressure gauge when the oil is hot from track use (ie 260F oil temps)
Now, if you dont see these temps, probably any oil will do the job. But if you do, the contrarian opinion is that thin oil is ok, and might be actually better. well, then i go back to my statistics. 90 racing hours, 6 full racing seasons, no material in the filter, magnet, oil pressure good, compression same after 6 years, engine hp same, etc. Its just a testimonial, take it as such.
MK
 
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Originally Posted By: Garak
Zero hot oil pressure with a 40 grade, and 40 grade oil being like sewing machine oil - you see my point.


Post 84:

mobil 1 was determined to be the root cause of the oil light coming on at the track.
mobil 1 = thin oil at temp = lack of pressure= pressure sensor sees the lack of pressure= switch is engaged = switch turns on little red light at oil gauge.

MK

And this poster was using Mobil 1 15w/50 - not 0w/40 - do you see my point about the sewing machine oil comment!

Now lets hope and pray 10 years on Mobil 1 oils are better than back in 2007 for track use.......and most of you seem to suggest they are.
 
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Summer approaching is bringing this issue further to the foreground.

Just got in a Formula 330 that had 13 and 8 psi hot oil pressure on twin engines with M1 15/50. VR1 20/50 now has them both never moving off of 40 psi minimum under any circumstance.

Sad part is, both engines have 18" oil coolers that are fed with sea water straight out of the bottom. Popped the hoses off of both to make sure they were not obstructed.
 
Originally Posted By: juggernaut
Garak I defer you to this Porche oil related thread which harks back to 2007 being the same era my brother experienced no oil pressure and I experienced unacceptable valvetrain wear with Mobil 1 oils.

I am not saying it could not have been too thin under any circumstances. Zero and low are two very different concepts, though. Viscosity is readily quantifiable.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Zero and low are two very different concepts, though.


Yes and no - in reality the end result might be the same depending on the motor, oil pump, clearances, heat, revs, load, etc.
 
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Spoke to a a mechanic from a former chrysler dealership today. we were at a hyundai dealer mechanic training together, but arrived a bit early as traffic was lighter than anticipated.

Back in the day that chrysler and daimler were in bed together, the 300C was sold in europe with Mercedes (diesel) engines. The recommended fluid or those was Mobil 1 (though not the full saps) and most dealers used that. Apparently a LOT of engines had to be replaced under warranty after blowing up. His dealership used Castrol C3 and they never had one that needed replacing. Heresay and all that, but I immediately had to think about this thread.... Figured I'd share it anyway although nobody will believe what I'm saying.

After Fiat and Chrysler merged, the old chrysler dealerships lost their license and the Fiat dealerships started selling and servicing Chrysler products.

Edit: Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40 Is what he said was recommended
 
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Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Spoke to a a mechanic from a former chrysler dealership today. we were at a hyundai dealer mechanic training together, but arrived a bit early as traffic was lighter than anticipated.

Back in the day that chrysler and daimler were in bed together, the 300C was sold in europe with Mercedes (diesel) engines. The recommended fluid or those was Mobil 1 (though not the full saps) and most dealers used that. Apparently a LOT of engines had to be replaced under warranty after blowing up. His dealership used Castrol C3 and they never had one that needed replacing. Heresay and all that, but I immediately had to think about this thread.... Figured I'd share it anyway although nobody will believe what I'm saying.

After Fiat and Chrysler merged, the old chrysler dealerships lost their license and the Fiat dealerships started selling and servicing Chrysler products.

Edit: Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40 Is what he said was recommended

First time I hear about those engines "blowing up." Though, I saw them in MB's with 500K or more.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Certainly the result might be the same, but the cause could be different. Also, in this case, one would be hyperbole, the other not.


IMHO - the cause in both cases was a p.i.s.s. weak oil.
 
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Originally Posted By: Jetronic
I know. But MB dealerships likely don't use the same oil....

All MB's I saw were in Europe where M1 is go to oil for MB, gas or diesel.
I saw them used being run on M1, Valvoline, Castrol, Repsol etc. and they do fine. Injectors on other hand are different story.
 
Originally Posted By: w1lq
Hi guys,

I'm driving a tuned '08 335d running 400 bhp. The car has been modded to accomodate that power by adding a large FMIC, blanking off the EGR and removing the DPF in favour of a 100 cpsi sport cat. Now my only problem is the fact that the engine will be running a lot hotter than originally designed, especially that I drive rather aggresively and I intend to track it from time to time. It does not help that the 335d is equipped only with a heat exchanger instead of a full blown oil radiator.

Therefore, I'd like go for a 5w40 fully synthetic oil with a rather high HTHS. My priority is engine protection, period.

Would you have any recommendations in regards to oil? I'm uncertain if I ought to follow the BMW LL01 norm or I should look for something with newer API Cx norms?

I can get pretty much anything from AMSOIL or PENRITE to SHELL or MOBIL (with some exceptions we have here in Europe).


Amsoil DEO is a stout oil.
 
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