stuck/frozen bolts. is heat the key?

[tomcat27]

our latest project, the 1984 F150, is kicking our tail. it spent many miles on the salty roads of Michigan. many bolts are so stuck that we have rounded many bolt heads, broken others, and my collection of broken extensions and drives is growing. it using heat the key? and are we talking propane? mapp? acetylene? yes, we have applied PB Blaster early and often

 

[55Test]

Lots of heat, Propane/butane won't do, you need to get that mofo glowing bright red. An acetylene torch would probably do the trick

 

[tomcat27]

excellent! the perfect excuse to get an acetylene torch! (aka: the blue tip wrench! )

 

[Donald]

An impact wrench can also help along with PB Blaster. Also the sockets with grabbing teeth to remove rounded off nut & bolt heads.

My Dad also had a carbon arc torch for his trusty Lincoln AC welder. He would place the carbon rods on each side of a nut or bolt head and make it part of the circuit.

People also weld a new nut to a rounded off bolt head to get it off.

For a small enough nut/bolt, Mapp gas might do it.

The issue with a oxy/acetylene torch is the purchase or rental of the gas bottles.

 

[The_Eric]

Acetylene torch and an impact. Don't spare the heat! Get them red+ hot.

 

[sleddriver]

MAAP is easier to obtain & less expensive than acetylene. However, what's available today isn't the same according to this:

Quote:
In the spring of 2008, true MAPP gas production ended in North America when production was discontinued at the only remaining plant in North America that still manufactured it. Current products labeled "MAPP" are, in fact, MAPP substitutes. These versions are stabilized liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) with high levels of propylene.[1]

Given that, "MAAP" + air will still burn at 3,670°F. With O2 it will burn at 5,300°F.

Just how big are these bolts??

 

[JC1]

Don't forget a wire brush to get some of the rust off the fastener before spraying your penentrating fluid.

I like to use ATF and acetone instead. I start spraying it on every day starting 3-4 days before I'm going to do the job.

It keeps the cussing to a minimum.

 

[Trav]

Oxy acetylene torch is the only way to go, buy your own bottles and just swap them out at you local airgas for the refill charge only no rental fee. Forget propane or Mapp they really don't make enough heat. Airgas usually has some decent sets for sale under the Radnor brand but they are made by Victor.

A good double hammer air impact and small hydraulic nut splitter like this one are useful tools for rusted fasteners.

 

[andyd]

Originally Posted By: tomcat27
our latest project, the 1984 F150, is kicking our tail. it spent many miles on the salty roads of Michigan. many bolts are so stuck that we have rounded many bolt heads, broken others, and my collection of broken extensions and drives is growing. it using heat the key? and are we talking propane? mapp? acetylene? yes, we have applied PB Blaster early and often
Granted I'm old and slow, and I had never owned a Ranger. All it needed was a clutch. I jump started it and crept to a gas station for some gas and air. I drove home 50 miles at 65 mph. Ran great for a 20yr old truck. It took me a week of knuckle busting to get the cheesy little 5spd out. 1 bolt snapped. 1 bolt I cut out with a sawzall. I have an emotional attachment to the Rat. It is my rescue pet with extra emotional baggage. Had I'd been rational I never would have bought the thing. The clutch was merely the tip of the iceberg. I mostly use hammers, chisels, 6 point sockets, cheater pipes and oil or PB Blaster

OH, and once a 3 foot long 3/8 flex bit on something on the firewall. I forgot what.

 

[Kruse]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Oxy acetylene torch is the only way to go, buy your own bottles and just swap them out at you local airgas for the refill charge only no rental fee. Forget propane or Mapp


I agree 100%.
Just remember one thing: Have a little chat with your insurance agent BEFORE you light up the torch for the first time. It could be a very bad surprise to find out that the building that just burned down...with the vehicle inside of it.... was not covered under your present insurance policy because the use of an acetylene torch was not included in the fine print.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted By: JC1
Don't forget a wire brush to get some of the rust off the fastener before spraying your penentrating fluid.

I like to use ATF and acetone instead. I start spraying it on every day starting 3-4 days before I'm going to do the job.

It keeps the cussing to a minimum.


+1. I've had fasteners that would not budge with PB Blaster come lose easily with ATF + Acetone. One was the clutch bleeder on my MK4 Golf so no heat or impact as the housing was plastic. Wire brush on a drill, apply penertrant and then whack it with a hammer. Re-apply and hit again as your time constraints dictate. Listen to Canadians, we know our rusty fasteners well.

 

[Nick1994]

I can't imagine having to deal with rust.

I've replaced the leaf springs, rear axle, front suspension, front wheel bearings, motor mounts, transmission mount, etc. all in my 21 year old Jeep and every bolt comes out like it was new.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
I can't imagine having to deal with rust.

I've replaced the leaf springs, rear axle, front suspension, front wheel bearings, motor mounts, transmission mount, etc. all in my 21 year old Jeep and every bolt comes out like it was new.


What's wrenching on cars without a challenge and the threat of broken fasteners turning a simple job into a nightmare? The upside is that once you break them loose and they are not damaged, you can apply anti-seize and get it all over your hands, your tools, your clothing......etc

 

[SumpChump]

KROIL

 

[Dave Sherman]

Heat and PB Blaster work wonders for me. Sometimes need to let the Blaster work for a day or two. Haven't tried the ATF/Acetone yet, but I've heard that's great stuff too. I will say after dealing with frozen bolts on the Midget, don't mess with 12-point sockets. Invest in a good set of 6 point sockets (preferably 1/2" drive impact sockets) so they don't round off. The Craftsman Bolt-out sockets saved the day once when I rounded off a bolt head with a 12-point.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Donald
My Dad also had a carbon arc torch for his trusty Lincoln AC welder. He would place the carbon rods on each side of a nut or bolt head and make it part of the circuit.

I had one of those in the UK. Didn't use it much, because as a flat dweller it was difficult/impossible to get power to the car, and for some of the time I could use oxy-acetylene courtesy of the Volunteer Army Reserve.

If they (and the carbon electrodes) are still available I'd say it might be worth a try, since it wasn't expensive. Was intended for brazing, IIRC.

Very speculative, but I wondered at the time about blowing a fine jet of steam through the arc, from, say, a hypodermic needle, to get more heat onto the workpiece. Some of the water should form an H - O plasma and then recombine in a high temperature "flame"

There's an obsolete welding technique that does essentially the same thing with hydrogen, forming a hydrogen plasma, though it needs a fancy big box of obsolete electronics.

http://www.specialwelds.com/articles/atomic-hydrogen-welding.asp

Talking of obsolete welding techniques, in a '60's DIY car maintenance book I got from the public library, there was mention of a single-electrode carbon arc torch run from the car battery. Tracked one down in a accessories shop because the owners father happened to be hanging around when I made the enquiry, and he remembered a box at the back.

He said they worked but this one didn't work for me. 12V I couldn't get an arc (there was heat though) 24V the rubber insulation on the cable started to smoke.

From reading the industrial version produces a weak weld (contaminated with carbon from the electrode) that was (is?) used (as a safety feature) for the flange weld around the ends of oil drums so they blow at a relatively low pressure in fires.

If I had a stubborn bolt to shift I might try improvising something along the lines of the single carbon torch first. Since you aren't welding, you wouldn't necessarily need an arc and could maybe just put current through it, (from battery or an arc welder) relying on resistive heating at the thread interface. Cycles of heat and penetrative oil. Should be do-able with plastics etc in the immediate area too.

 

[oldhp]

Heat it and then ice it. Works excellent on brake bleeders.

 

[spackard]

There's plenty of videos from the South Main Auto Channel; he uses a torch, air impact wrench flipped rapidly between forward/reverse, and the 'big nasty', a large air hammer.
Even though I live in So Cal I like watching them. Go figure.

 

[Ducked]

From a bit of poking around it looks like new carbon-arc kit might no longer be available, though for resistive heating without an arc maybe a bolt, bit of copper or aluminium pipe/rod in a welding rod holder/jump lead clamp would do the job.

Here's some improvisation from Ethiopia.

https://www.ajol.info/index.php/sinet/article/download/18214/17213

 

[MoultrieCreek]

Recently I heated cherry red three exhaust manifold bolts on a farm tractor that had rusted in place since 1963, the heads wrung off immediately. I decided to try out an Internet legend that says to apply candle wax while it is still super hot and it will seep into the threads. When I revisited the project the next morning, just a few minutes with a drill and easy out and the broken bolts came out like they had just been screwed in by hand. A friend who was helping me ran home and tried this trick to pull a manifold off his hot rod project and had great results himself.

Also important to add: don't go hack up your wife's favorite Yankee candle with a screwdriver. It was hard to explain how important my exhaust repair was to an angry woman...