What is wrong with finished fuels?

[drfuelinstein]

Some years ago I was in a conversation with a refined fuels expert. He was claiming that modern day finished fuels regulated by USEPA and CARB could not get much better. At the time I knew chemists at many companies in the fuel additive business including at places like Chevron, Texaco and Exxon. The conversation led me to call my friends at these companies and pose a question in the following manner. I said to them.

"The engine builders would have us believe there is nothing wrong with the engine's. Right?" Answer was always "yes"

Then I said

"And the refiners would have us believe there is nothing wrong with the finished fuel. Right?" Answer was always "Yes"

I then said "ok now that we know this I just have one question. If there is nothing wrong with the engines and there is nothing wrong with the finished fuel. When you guys come up with all your formulations and make all your claims. My only question is Exactly what problem are you correcting?" sadly the answer was always silence

 

[L_Sludger]

The problems they correct deal with deviations from the published specifications of their product. When their product deviates from the spec, they fix them. So if the finished fuel is at spec, then they are doing their jobs.

 

[Nyogtha]

^^^ +1, from first-hand experience both domesric & import / export

Dr. Fuelenstein, what is it that YOU think is wrong with finished fuels?

Generally, finished fuels specs are set by regulatory agencies, not refiners, and it's been that way for quite a while.

 

[SHOZ]

Just put some corn juice in it and be happy there is no water in the gas problems.

 

[drfuelinstein]

I am quite aware of the regulatory agencies and the specs they set. Refiners just produce it. After all it just a business. The problem are not the fuels themselves. The real problems in my opinion that have been missed for the most part are dissolved air, aeration and cavitation. Carbon deposits begin with these issues.

 

[Nyogtha]

You're a very curious individual.

CNG fueled engines still develop some carbon deposits, but the fuel usn't subject to any of the "problems" you list that your experience are the source cause of such deposits.

If CNG has dissolved air you have some REAL problems of magnitudes much larger than potential source of carbon deposits.

There's no aeration of CNG as it's single phase.

There's no cavitation of CNG since it's gas phase.

Ask anyone who has worked with natural gas transmission where the compressors are driven by IC engines fueled with line supply natural gas

However such engines still use high molecular weight lubricants subject to coking & cracking at localized hot spots.

 

[Linctex]

You need to worry more about all the crudd the fuel picks up during pipeline transport, and from the tank terminals the local filling station trucks fuel from.

Refiners can only control the product.... up until it enters the pipeline.

 

[drfuelinstein]

fuel filters will pick that up. at the pump where you buy it and the fuel filters in your vehicle fuel system

 

[novadude]

I know lots of people that just buy the cheapest convenience store fuel they can find, and I cannot recall the last time I've heard anyone having any problems that were directly caused by any retail gasoline. My answer to your question is "nothing".

 

[kschachn]

Hopefully this thread doesn't end up like that Purolator thread...

 

[SirTanon]

Originally Posted By: Linctex
You need to worry more about all the crudd the fuel picks up during pipeline transport, and from the tank terminals the local filling station trucks fuel from.


...and the goofy stuff people add to the gas once they put it in their car...

 

[Garak]

Today's fuels aren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination. Then again, considering we OCD BITOGers all have different ideas, one can never please everyone. But, I certainly don't want to go back to the fuel systems of the 1970s. I don't miss dumping in methanol, or vapour lock, or a mess from leaded fuel.