CK-4 HDEO in Motorcycles

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Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Look at the back panel of the new Rotella T-6 CK4 in this thread: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4359262/2/Rotella_no_longer_gas_engine_r See the JASO MA rating. That is gas engine rated for motorcycles.

If you want more ZDDP than 1,200 PPM (0.12%), you'll need to go to specialty oils. Valvoline 4-T and others may meet your needs.

As far as diesel engines and motorcycles, most big diesels have roller cam followers and have for decades. Lots of bikes have slipper cam followers. Maybe the same oil will work, maybe not ...

You can always run VR-1 20W-50 or GTX 20W-50 and it should be fine. But you'll be changing oil somewhat more frequently. UOA's will be the name of the game for a while, while all this gets sorted out ...


If one is looking for a high zinc oil for whatever reason, its best to check the UOA and VOAs in here, as some of the oils you mentioned are lower then the C & S rated Diesel/Gasoline oils that you are discounting..

If you look up Castrol GTX 20/50 I think you will find very low Zinc and Phos.

Here is an example of a past UOA I did on Valvoline 4 stroke ... which is also lower then the current Mystik 15/50 I use.
Valvoline 20/50 conv. motorcycle oil

I couldn't get your link to work so maybe this doesn't matter but if your going to compare additives it should be on VOA. UOA will just tell you how much is left after being used.
 
Originally Posted By: pwr2tow
I couldn't get your link to work so maybe this doesn't matter but if your going to compare additives it should be on VOA. UOA will just tell you how much is left after being used.

The zinc in ZDDP gets used up? How does that happen?
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: pwr2tow
... but if your going to compare additives it should be on VOA. UOA will just tell you how much is left after being used.

The zinc in ZDDP gets used up? How does that happen?


If one checks the VOA section and the UOA section of the same oil they will find the "additives" like ZDDP do not get used up and both the UOA and VOA will reflect roughly the same numbers.
One can confirm this on the Mystik 15/50 as I posted both UOA and VOAs.
Another member in here also posted UOA and VOAs on Mobil 1 motorcycle oil to name just two.

Plus of course the other countless postings in here to compare and confirm, the numbers do not get used up and one can safely use a UOA to see what ZDDP concentration to expect in an oil.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: alarmguy


If you look up Castrol GTX 20/50 I think you will find very low Zinc and Phos.



if you look into castrol gtx 20w50 you will find some pelican wizzed in it
all it is worth as both an oil and for its price
 
OK guys, I have some very reassuring data to share. Not sure if this has been posted here before, but I have not seen it, so here goes.

Rotella T3 --------------> http://www.pqiamerica.com/May 2013/rotella.htm
Rotella T4 --------------> http://pqiadata.org/Shell_Rotella_T4_15W40_4192017.html

Here you can see that the new Rotella T4 looks very similar to the old T3, BUT, more zinc. From what I understand that is a very good thing.
Other changes:
significantly more Boron
slightly more phosphorus

Looks good to me.
 
I mis-wrote about the GTX. Mind about ten thoughts ahead of fingers. I run GTX in dry-sump motors that do not like Delo 400 or Rotella (noisy). It's about viscosity in this case, not zinc content for me and I should have stated that.

The Valvoline 4-T I mentioned has worked very well for me. I assume that they have alternative AW chemistry to ZDDP ... I have shown very little wear in retired desert race motor (Honda XL350/Powroll) running Valvoline oils. These are shared sump systems getting beat on pretty strenuously in heat ...

What I'm not happy about is loss of access to easily obtainable Valvoline 2-T oil ... Grrrrr
frown.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Degreaser

...
So the new Rotella T6 5w40 CK-4 is ok for my bike, with or without a SM or SN rating (which I think is only for the zinc-phos limits for newer gasoline motors).
Any comments would be appreciated...

I'm digging around and this is the only post I've found that seems to maybe...possibly...address my question.

Shell Rotella T6 changed to a new CK-4 spec and dropped JASO from the list of specs. Is it still good for motorcycles with a wet clutch?

Thanks. You guys are the experts.

Chris
 
grab CJ-4 now cause it ain't comming back..the CK is low SASP, low add packs that may or may not work out for anything..I'm no pioneer with my engines... have 4 years of D1 in stock but if looking today I'd go to Mobil 1 T4 Racing, nifty on paper.
 
...lot of HDEO sold over the years for powersport engines..I'll bet we see the big vendors step it up in the catagory.
 
Originally Posted By: Daboo
Originally Posted By: Degreaser

...
So the new Rotella T6 5w40 CK-4 is ok for my bike, with or without a SM or SN rating (which I think is only for the zinc-phos limits for newer gasoline motors).
Any comments would be appreciated...

I'm digging around and this is the only post I've found that seems to maybe...possibly...address my question.

Shell Rotella T6 changed to a new CK-4 spec and dropped JASO from the list of specs. Is it still good for motorcycles with a wet clutch?

Thanks. You guys are the experts.

Chris


I will make an attempt to answer. Rotella has never ACTUALLY been JASO rated. Shell engineers and chemist have put this on some of their HDEOs because they understood the requirement and knew their oil would meet the standard. Since the new T6 has dropped the JASO off the rating, I would suspect that the Shell folks are not confident it would meet the spec. I believe the Rotella 15-40 still has the JASO rating on the back. The 15-40 Rotella is probably better anyway for a shared sump bike, it will shear less. This is my understanding anyway.
 
I understand that, to the best of my knowledge, Shell Rotella has never been officially submitted and certified for JASO-MA ...

But I do like the fact that they state that T4 15w-40 is now on their "OK" list for MA applications:
http://rotella.shell.com/products/rotella-triple-protection.html

That's all I care about; it's OK for use in MA/MA-2. My Victory is out of warranty (and the brand no longer exists anyway) so I just want an inexpensive decent lube that will be OK for use in my bike.
 
Straight from the Shell website: http://rotella.shell.com/products/t6-full-synthetic.html


OEM Specifications and Approvals for Shell ROTELLA® T6 full synthetic heavy duty engine oil

API: CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4
ACEA E9; JASO DH-2; Cummins CES 20086; Volvo VDS-4.5; Detroit Fluid specification (DFS) 93K222, Caterpillar ECF-2/ECF-3, MAN M3575, JASO MA/MA2, Allison TES 439, MB-Approval 228.31

JASO and Allison are still both there. I dunno where others get their data ...
 
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Originally Posted By: Degreaser
I think that the new API CK-4 classification is ok to use in wet clutch bikes, but what is a big question mark for me is the new FA-4 classification on the Shell Rotella T6 jugs, that FA-4 on the jug is what needs more research before using it in motorcycles with a wet clutch. Anyone have a comment on this?


I have not found any Rotella T6 jugs that are rated FA-4...can I ask which retailer and part of the country you found this product?

Much appreciated.
 
Originally Posted By: Spur
Thanks for the comments. I will continue to use my DELO in CJ if I can find it. I know it works well in my shared sump Indian from UOAs. If I can't find the CJ anymore, will run the CK for a short interval and UOA it.


I am still finding the DELO 400 "LE" 5W-40 Diesel Oil in only CJ-4.
Wal-Mart continues to carry it; however, the price per 1-gallon jug has recently increased $2.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
kschachn said:
pwr2tow said:
...
One can confirm this on the Mystik 15/50 as I posted both UOA and VOAs.


AlarmGuy,

Where do you find Mystik 15/50 ?
Any chance you also know where to find JT-8 in 5W-40 ?

Thanks for any assistance.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
AlarmGuy,

About an hour after I posted the above question, I found Mystik 15/50 and 15/40 semi-synthetic at my new Farm Supply.

I opted for the 15/40 for now since we are still on the cooler side in the mornings.
 
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver

I have not found any Rotella T6 jugs that are rated FA-4...can I ask which retailer and part of the country you found this product?


Not sure there is an FA-4 T6. According to Shell's site, there is a T5 Ultra 10W-30 FA-4. The standard (non-Ultra) T5 is available in 10W-30 and 15W-40. None of the T5's claim JASO MA/MA2, although I've personally used T5 15W-40 in a wet clutch bike with no issues.

But, sometimes Web sites can be incorrect/incomplete and maybe there is a T6 FA-4.
 
FWIW,
I just tried Mystik 15W-40 in my 2007 BMW with a Rotax 652 cc and the results were immediately poor for clutch shifting.

I am only posting this for future informational purposes and not to argue any other post.

This motorcycle lubrication forum has good experience/feedback for larger bikes but I don't see much posted for thumpers.

I intend to change it out for the Rotella 15W-40 or maybe a M1 product.
 
I know this is an old thread but I came across it because I am trying to decide on oil for a 2017 1200 Sportster. HD lists 20/50 as preferred (which I prefer)and HD syn 3 as the best but gives no other info on their oil. As previously posted the use of various diesel spec'd dino oil is acceptable when their dino 360 is not available but to change to 360 AsaP. My problem has been finding a 20/50 with the req. CH ratings. I ended up finding that Kawasaki has such an animal and that is what I will end up using. It costs less and is spec'd. I feel that the warranty issue requires using something from the manual. The change back asap is baloney. Define asap. I would switch to syn but they list no specs-HD is a proprietary formula. Sportsters still use the EVO motor and when they came out I bet few used synthetic oils and they held up pretty well. I will go with the 5K change too, except after the first at 1k I will change again at 2500 to ensure all the original hd 360 has been replaced. It reminds me of when I bought a GW1800 in 01 and the JASO req. was there except for SG/Sh being OK. There weren't many JASO rated oils then and sg was long gone. I wondered how Amsoil could satisfy warranty as claimed until I saw the bottle and it was rated SG--Jaso had nothing to do with it. Funny thing was Honda was touting the use of moly in big letters on their top tier branded oil and that turned out to be a big mistake. Gotta love it.
 
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