Civic Hatch 1.5T FF UAO

[parshisa]

Here's the deal. New hatch, at around 3.5K miles started noticing oil level increase on the dipstick. It was going up so at 4700 changed the oil and sent the sample to Blackstone. oil was very thin, almost watery, black and smelled like gas. I was 99.99% sure it was getting fuel diluted. Few days later my result comes in...and nothing. No fuel whatsoever. I'm confused. Although viscosity dropped below the threshold so I doubt I'd be able to drive another 5K as per MM. What do you think fellas, why did the oil level increased in no fuel or coolant in the oil was found???

 

[Danh]

Likely another Blackstone miss on fuel dilution. Given the viscosity of your oil is well below spec (6.9-9.2 @ 100C), and about the lowest for a 20 grade I've seen, you almost certainly have substantial fuel dilution. The rising crankcase level is another telltale, provided it wasn't simply moisture from cold weather short-tripping.

Your experience is very similar to dblshock, another poster here with the same Civic 1.5T combination. If you search his posts you'll ffind me a similar UOA story. But he went to Polaris, which measures dilution via gas chromatography, for a UOA and it came back as greater than 5%. How much greater is open to question as such results are unusual enough that amounts over 5% aren't quantified.

This may very well be a characteristic of the Honda 1.5T and maybe Honda has this all figured out. But I wouldn't be a happy owner and sure wouldn't stretch the OCI.

 

[dblshock]

right at +5% Polaris red flags fuel dilution as 'Critical' I think mine dilutes +20% in the real cold here and I base that on the volume measured above full on the dipstick over a 4K run she puts on a qt.

I've gone with heavier oil, when it gets a bit over full will draw it down 1.5 qts. with a modified Mityvac then add a fresh qt. I hope this minumizes the risks.

 

[parshisa]

oh my....but how in the [censored] Blackstone doesn't see any fuel in the sample? I mean, miss by 1-2% can be explained...but traces found instead of more than 5% dilution (based on how much I was able to drain)????

 

[parshisa]

So what oil weight do you use? 0W30? does it really makes a difference to the oil pump as I believe it's designed to move lighter fluids? will it last same as it would on 0w20?

 

[Danh]

Originally Posted By: parshisa
oh my....but how in the [censored] Blackstone doesn't see any fuel in the sample? I mean, miss by 1-2% can be explained...but traces found instead of more than 5% dilution (based on how much I was able to drain)????


Blackstone bases fuel dilution on human observation of the sample's flashpoint. So it's an approximation based on a method subject to error. Gas chromotography is machine-based and akin to spectral analysis, so is lots more reliable. Oddly, Blackstone seems to always error on the low side and there are plenty of examples where Blackstone said no problem and a GC lab came back with very high levels.

I'd put my money on gas chromatography, which at least seems to make sense vis a vis the sample's viscosity.

 

[SF0059]

Plan on using Polaris next time... I'm going to switch soon due to their ability to find fuel via gas chromatography instead of flashpoint as @Danh stated.

Dollars to donuts Polaris shows noticeable fuel dilution.

 

[parshisa]

Well, I guess I can throw in the trash can my plans for 12K OCI with Amsoil. Given how fast it gets diluted I'll have to change it every 3K or so. State of art Honda engine

 

[parshisa]

And another question: how reliable are Blackstone's iron/aluminum/copper measurements? Do they measure additives pretty accurate?

 

[Dyusik]

So much obvious error in the Blackstone labs, yet people go there anyway. Amsoil website price is no more then them, you just don't have the cheaper non-TBN option. I don't get it.

 

[slybunda]

Could this be caused by the way the sample was obtained? If gas is lighter than oil then that means the gas would drain out at the end since its sitting on top of the oil in the sump? So if the sample was taken out half way through the drain then gas may not have been in sample?

 

[555]

How do you drive it? Long trips,short trips, full throttle often etc. What octane, brand of gas?

 

[HKPolice]

I'm guessing low tension piston rings are the main cause of excessive fuel dilution?

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: HKPolice
I'm guessing low tension piston rings are the main cause of excessive fuel dilution?


A lot of short trips, never getting the oil up to full operating temp.

 

[Danh]

Originally Posted By: parshisa
And another question: how reliable are Blackstone's iron/aluminum/copper measurements? Do they measure additives pretty accurate?


Blackstone particle counts come from spectral analysis of some sort and seem reliable. Polaris and Blackstone particle counts from the same sample seem very close, so that doesn't seem to be an issue.

On the plus side, Blackstone does give a nice narrative that goes with each report. Polaris' comments are all computer-generated based on results.

 

[parshisa]

95% highway at 70mph. 40miles trip commute to work (one way). No full throttle. Regular gas mostly from Costco.
I was thinking if early shifting could be the reason? Going into the higher gear with lower speed and car is trying to catch up by throwing richer air/fuel mix?

 

[HKPolice]

Originally Posted By: parshisa
95% highway at 70mph. 40miles trip commute to work (one way). No full throttle. Regular gas mostly from Costco.
I was thinking if early shifting could be the reason? Going into the higher gear with lower speed and car is trying to catch up by throwing richer air/fuel mix?


Yes, a richer mixture will make things worse but lugging your engine also causes oil pressures to drop so there might not be enough oil reaching the piston rings to provide a proper seal. Then again, does this engine have an electric oil pump? If so then oil pressure wouldn't be an issue.

 

[bigt61]

OP - let the car break in a little more before you draw conclusions. Early shifting may not help if you're "lugging" the engine - the increase in cylinder pressure may worsen the obvious dilution. Rev it a little every now and then, but you don't have to bang the redline. A little occasional RPM burst will hasten the break in. If the dilution persists when you get past the 30k mark, I'd switch to 5W-30.

 

[dblshock]

...another issue is the actual volume of fluid (oil + fuel) accumulation in the sump. owners manual has 2 clear admonishments for overfilling...changing oil is a pia compared to drawing it down with a customized Mityvac like I do.

 

[dblshock]

This is what I'm dealing with after 4k here in winter, granted the motor was young at 10k.