SAE30 oil for Michigan loader

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Hi - my circa 1960's Clark Michigan loader with a Detroit Diesel 4-53 engine lists SAE30 oil as the recommended engine lube. The manual specifically rejects the use of multigrade oils at that time. Now 50+ years later, should a straight 30wt oil be used as per the old specs or are better products now available for off-road construction machinery Diesel engines?
 
Detroit claims that the multi viscosity oils have too much ash and also cause accelerated cylinder wear.

With that said we had a silver 92 in the shop a couple weeks ago and it had a sticker recomending mobil delvac 15w40 full synthetic oil.
 
No multi-grade oil in Detroit 2-stokes, ever. Modern or old fashioned oils. Just don't do it. SAE 40 HD with a CF-2 rating is the preferred IIRC ...

We run SAE 30 in some pump motors because they go from stone cold to governed speed in 30 seconds and it's near freezing when that happens (winter with King Tides). For use in DD 2-strokes in non-winter conditions, it's SAE 40 all the way.

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Detroit Diesel Allison® Lube Oil Recommendations for

Detroit Diesel® 2-Cycle Engines
DDC publication 6SA314 8901
Function of Lubricating Oils
All diesel engines require heavy duty lubricating oils. Basic requirements of such oils are:
Lubricating quality
High heat resistance
Control of contaminants
Lubricating Quality
The reduction of friction and wear by maintaining an oil film between moving parts is the primary requisite of a lubricant. Film thickness and its ability to prevent metal-to-metal contact of moving parts is related to oil viscosity. The optimums for Detroit Diesel® two-cycle engines are SAE 40 grade oils.

High Heat Resistance
Temperature is the most important factor in determining the rate at which deterioration or oxidation of the lubricating oil will occur. The oil should have adequate thermal stability at elevated temperatures, thereby precluding formation of harmful carbonaceous and/or ash deposits.

Control of Contaminants
The piston and compression rings must ride on a film of oil to minimize wear and prevent cylinder seizure. At normal rates of consumption, oil reaches a temperature zone at the upper part of the piston where rapid oxidation and carbonization can occur. In addition, as oil circulates through the engine, it is continuously contaminated by soot, acids, and water originating from combustion. Until they are exhausted, detergent and dispersant additives aid in keeping sludge and varnish from depositing on engine parts. But such additives in excessive quantities can result in detrimental ash deposits. If abnormal ash deposits form on the exhaust valve seats, early engine failure may result. Oil that is carried up the cylinder liner wall is normally consumed during engine operation. The oil and additives leave carbonaceous and/or ash deposits when subjected to the elevated temperatures of the combustion chamber. The amount of deposits is influenced by the composition, additive content, engine temperature, and oil consumption rate.

Oil Quality
Oil quality is the responsibility of the oil supplier. (The term "oil supplier" is applicable to refiners, blenders, and re branders of petroleum products). Oil quality can also be affected by handling cleanliness, contamination, dirt, water, etc.

Lubricant Recommendation for Detroit Diesel® Two-Cycle Engines
SAE Viscosity Grade 40
API Classification: CD-II, (Note: CD-II is an obsolete designation replaced by the current API Rating CF-2)
Military Spec: MIL-L-2104D
Sulfated Ash: Less than 1.0% Sulfated Ash Rate

Comparison List

Updated 08/30/06 Chevron Delo 100 40 WT = 0.76 (24% BELOW benchmark)

Exxon XD-3 40 WT = 0.80

Citgo Mystik Premium (Citgo is owned by Venezuela)
Fleet Engine Oil 40 WT = 0.90 CLICK here for History of Citgo

Shell Rotella 40T 40 WT = 1.00 (Shell Rotella 40T is borderline)

Delo 400 40 WT = 1.35 (35% OUT of TOLERANCE)

These are the only engine oils recommended for Detroit Diesel® two-cycle engines. Lubricants meeting these criteria have provided maximum engine life when used in conjunction with recommended oil drain and filter maintenance schedules. (For additional oil selection criteria, see publication 7SE270.) The API category CD-II (CF-2)(Note: CD-II is an obsolete designation replaced by the current API Rating CF-2) is relatively new and may not be fully in use at the time of this publication. (NOTE: This publication was published in 1989) API category CD may be used provided the recommended military specification is satisfied. Oils with API designation "CE" are not recommended in DDC two-cycle engines unless accompanied by CD-II (CF-2) (Note: CD-II is an obsolete designation replaced by the current API Rating CF-2)

Single Grade-High Ash Content Lube Oils
High ash oils (greater than 1,000 mass % ASTM D-874) tend to form excessive deposits on engine parts, resulting in impairment of their function (exhaust valve closure, for example). These are NOT recommended, except where the continuous use of high sulfur content diesel fuels (greater than 0.5 mass %) is unavoidable and where a high TBN, LOW ASH oil is not available.

Multi-Vis Oils
Less than optimum engine life must be expected when using 15w-40 oils. Multi-vis oils tend to break down due to mechanical and thermal stress which results in a loss of viscosity and premature engine wear. Multi-vis oils do help cranking when temperatures are below 32 degrees F (0 degrees C). However, once the engine starts, the major advantage of the multi-vis oils is exhausted. When the engine reaches operating temperature, the internal engine temperatures and pressures vary little from an engine operating in much warmer climates. This is when the 2 cycle engine benefits from the superior protection of a 40 wt.

Starting aids such as automatic ether systems and /or on-board auxiliary heaters provide more reliable starting without sacrificing engine life.

Engine Parts Can Tell The Difference in Oils
The following oil performance parameters should be compared:

Ring Sticking tendencies and/or ring conditions
Piston skirt scuffing and cylinder liner wear and scuffing
Exhaust valve face and seat deposits
Piston pin and slipper bushing wear
Overall valve train and bearing wear levels
Shown are several component comparisons taken after a lube oil performance test.


Special Bulletin!
Re: Scarcity of Availability of Straight 40 WT. Oils Information is now posted in at TEJAS OIL.

Instructions where to find Locations with MAP & PHONE links. A word of Caution; There are hundreds of commercial crankcase oils marketed today. Obviously, engine manufacturers or users cannot completely evaluate the numerous commercial oils. The selection of a suitable lubricant in consultation with a reliable oil supplier and observance of his oil drain recommendations (based on used oil samples analysis and experience), and provide filter maintenance, will provide the best assurance of satisfactory oil performance.

It should be noted that lube oil manufactures may reformulate and oil while maintaining the American Petroleum Institute classification, or may reformulate to a new API classification and continue the brand name designation. For example, SE oils being reformulated to SF letter code classification may perform differently after this reformulation. A close working relationship with the lube oil manufacturer should be maintained so that any reformulation can be reviewed and a decision made as to its effect on continued satisfactory performance.

Detroit Diesel® Used Lube Oil Analysis Program
The Detroit Diesel® lube oil analysis program is recommended for monitoring the condition of the crankcase oil in all engines.

Primarily, used lube oil analyses indicate the condition of the oil but not necessarily the condition of the engine. Never tear down an engine based solely on the analysis results obtained from a single used oil sample. However, the condition of the engine should be investigated using conventional mechanical and/or electronic diagnostic instruments. Frequently, visual inspections are all that is required to detect problem areas related to engine wear. It is also prudent to obtain another oil sample from the suspected distressed unit for analysis.

Abnormal concentrations of some contaminants such as diesel fuel, coolant, road salt, or airborne dirt cannot be tolerated for prolonged periods. Their presence will be reflected in accelerated engine wear, which can result in less than optimum engine life. The oil should be changed immediately if any contamination is present in concentrations exceeding the warning limits.

6SA314 8901
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: donvalley
Hi - my circa 1960's Clark Michigan loader with a Detroit Diesel 4-53 engine lists SAE30 oil as the recommended engine lube. The manual specifically rejects the use of multigrade oils at that time. Now 50+ years later, should a straight 30wt oil be used as per the old specs or are better products now available for off-road construction machinery Diesel engines?


yes, this is a straight 30 that is also rated as a 10w30, check out the low pour point

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/mo.../?code=ACD1G-EA
 
We use Mobil Mobilfluid 424 hyd.
Are these below compatible to the above one?
-Sams AW 46 R & O Sams West hyd.
-Sinopec-AW 32 hyd.
-Sinopec-AW 32 hyd.
-Sinopec-AW 68 hyd.
-Sinopec-AW 46 hyd.

We use Mobil Delvac 1300 15-40 Engine oil
Are the below compatible to the above one?
-Sinopec 15W40 Classic Diesel oil
-Sinopec Tulux T600 15w40 cj-4 Synthectic
 
Originally Posted By: donvalley
Hi - my circa 1960's Clark Michigan loader with a Detroit Diesel 4-53 engine lists SAE30 oil as the recommended engine lube. The manual specifically rejects the use of multigrade oils at that time. Now 50+ years later, should a straight 30wt oil be used as per the old specs or are better products now available for off-road construction machinery Diesel engines?
I would use CF-2 rated straight 30 in cold/winter conditions, CF-2 straight 40 in summer. Multigrades will shear quickly & burn off rapidly (not that straight weights won't get consumed too, just not as fast).
 
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
No multi-grade oil in Detroit 2-stokes, ever. Modern or old fashioned oils. Just don't do it. SAE 40 HD with a CF-2 rating is the preferred IIRC ...

Yes, and there are specific monogrades from the majors marketing to that specification, too. Notably, I'm fairly certain Imperial Oil and Petro-Canada have options.
 
I've found some old documents that specify SAE 40 as the preferred oil, followed by SAE 30 for the 4-53 2-cycle Detroit Diesel. My initial post was, apparently, wrong regarding SAE 30 being preferred, other than in colder climates. Fortunately, I've located a local supplier of Chevron Delo 100 SAE 40.
smile.gif
 
Would an amzoil compressor oil sae 40 synthetic do? Less the 1% ash? Do car even get these today or truck?now I know why my friend had issue with his 8v91 9or 92 silver. Do they still even sell those oil?
 
Originally Posted By: donvalley
I've found some old documents that specify SAE 40 as the preferred oil, followed by SAE 30 for the 4-53 2-cycle Detroit Diesel. My initial post was, apparently, wrong regarding SAE 30 being preferred, other than in colder climates. Fortunately, I've located a local supplier of Chevron Delo 100 SAE 40.
smile.gif


SAE 40 and SAE 50 are the preferred choices, with selection dependent on fuel sulfur levels and operating temperature. Outside of that, Detroit is very clear in their latest guidance...

"At ambient temperatures below freezing (32°F or 0°C), sufficient starter cranking speed may not be achieved to start the engine with SAE 40 grade oils. Where starting aids are not available or at very cold temperatures (0°F to -25°F or -18°C to -32°C) even if starting aids are available, the use of multigrade SAE 15W-40 or monograde lubricant SAE 30 will improve startability. These lubricants must possess a High Temperature – High Shear Rate Viscosity (measured by ASTM D 4741 or equivalent) of 3.70 cP minimum. These oils must be replaced with monograde SAE 40 lubricants as soon as ambient conditions permit. Do not use multigrade or SAE 30 grade lubricants in two-stroke cycle marine engines or Series 149 under any circumstances."
 
So basically dd would wratter you boost the engine then put anything less then sae 40 high tbn with less then .85 ash. Interesting. And these engine (149) or the 2stroke are all over usa and Canada. Bus .rv boat . Some truck generator
 
We ran Delvac 1230 in 4 Fire trucks we had at work, never had any issues oil related and the analysis always came back good. 6 or 7 yrs ago we ran into a supply issue on the Mobil and had to switch to the Exxon XD30 (same oil, different packaging) for a year or so, then back to the Delvac 1230.
 
We run Mobilgard 410NC in our DD used to use 409NC. Hundreds of thousands of hours logged on hundreds of engines in a marine environment. SAE 40, you would have to find a distributor to get it though.
 
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Originally Posted By: donvalley
Hi - my circa 1960's Clark Michigan loader with a Detroit Diesel 4-53 engine lists SAE30 oil as the recommended engine lube. The manual specifically rejects the use of multigrade oils at that time. Now 50+ years later, should a straight 30wt oil be used as per the old specs or are better products now available for off-road construction machinery Diesel engines?
I would use CF-2 rated straight 30 in cold/winter conditions, CF-2 straight 40 in summer. Multigrades will shear quickly & burn off rapidly (not that straight weights won't get consumed too, just not as fast).


This is the right answer.

And it does not have so much to do with shearing as it does with port deposits and ring failures. DD 2-strokes have piston rings passing compressed air ports which seems to react with multi's and makes for ring/liner failures. The harder you pressurize the air (turbo & blower), the quicker the engine will fail on multi's ...
 
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