do you know what a torque stick is.......I do.

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Torque sticks are only as good as the person using them.

and it depends on. The impact being used.. you arent supposed to hammer down on them indefinitely.

They work fine if used correctly.. and adjusted for the impact wrench.

I now put lugnuts on a few threads by hand then use the lowest setting on my dewalt.
gets them around 65-70 lb-ft then final tighten with the torque wrench... but when I had my 120v IR impact(350 lb-ft) the torque sticks worked fine.

If you use a 1200lb-ft impact and hammer down for 15seconds .. yes they will be way over-tightened.
 
I've looked at the instructions that come with Torque Sticks, so far I've never seen any that said to use a specific
size impact gun or use a torque setting on an impact wrench to get the torque sticks to work correctly.

At my last tire change, I asked the tech to check torques by checking the release torque after the tech insisting on using
torque sticks - he was surprised that a 100 ft/lb torque stick released at 280 ft/lb - way over!

Even techs with yrs of experience in a garage are rushing to beat the clock and don't have time to find out if
the tools they use are actually as good as claimed.

As far as garage owners are concerned, get the cars in and out and get paid, to customers in the waiting
area staring thru the window, colored torque sticks look "professional".

Sad eh?
 
Originally Posted By: i_hate_autofraud


I've looked at the instructions that come with Torque Sticks, so far I've never seen any that said to use a specific
size impact gun or use a torque setting on an impact wrench to get the torque sticks to work correctly.

At my last tire change, I asked the tech to check torques by checking the release torque after the tech insisting on using
torque sticks - he was surprised that a 100 ft/lb torque stick released at 280 ft/lb - way over!

Even techs with yrs of experience in a garage are rushing to beat the clock and don't have time to find out if
the tools they use are actually as good as claimed.

As far as garage owners are concerned, get the cars in and out and get paid, to customers in the waiting
area staring thru the window, colored torque sticks look "professional".

Sad eh?



Do you mean that you asked the tech to check the torque in the loosening direction, to determine the point at which the lug broke loose? Break-away torque will always be higher than the torque indicated while the nut is actually rotating.
 
Not sure why folks are down on torque sticks. They've always worked okay for me. I use a 70ft/lb stick to tighten up the lugs on my cars, then torque to final spec with my torque wrench. It's consistent when used consistently. I've seen a lot of people using impacts and torque wrenches at at least half don't use them properly... just sayin.
 
I'm down on torque sticks, personally, because they strike me as the tool of a man who is satisfied with "good enough," when doing it properly only takes a bit more time and thought.
 
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
I'm down on torque sticks, personally, because they strike me as the tool of a man who is satisfied with "good enough," when doing it properly only takes a bit more time and thought.


I think using a torque stick for initial torquing and then a torque wrench for final torquing IS the best way to do it. The wheels get nicely snugged up and positioned and the lugs get reasonably and evenly torqued before the car is put on the ground. There is no "it's good enough" to it at all.
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: i_hate_autofraud


I've looked at the instructions that come with Torque Sticks, so far I've never seen any that said to use a specific
size impact gun or use a torque setting on an impact wrench to get the torque sticks to work correctly.

At my last tire change, I asked the tech to check torques by checking the release torque after the tech insisting on using
torque sticks - he was surprised that a 100 ft/lb torque stick released at 280 ft/lb - way over!

Even techs with yrs of experience in a garage are rushing to beat the clock and don't have time to find out if
the tools they use are actually as good as claimed.

As far as garage owners are concerned, get the cars in and out and get paid, to customers in the waiting
area staring thru the window, colored torque sticks look "professional".

Sad eh?



Do you mean that you asked the tech to check the torque in the loosening direction, to determine the point at which the lug broke loose? Break-away torque will always be higher than the torque indicated while the nut is actually rotating.




When you check break-away torque right after tightening, it will be higher by 5 - 10%, but not 100% over. When repeated with hand torqued nuts and then measuring the release torque, it was just 5 to 10% high. If you wait for rust to form in the threads it would be more, but still not 200 ft/lbs, etc on a hand torqued 100 ft/lbs.

Also note GM in it's TechLink publication to dealers Nov 2010 said impact guns are no longer endorsed and so neither are torque sticks.
 
"Use a Torque Wrench

The latest wheel installation procedures in the updated
Service Information for the 2011 model year call for the
use of a torque wrench. GM no longer endorses the use
of torque sticks for wheel nut tightening.

GM recommends hand starting the wheel nuts, and
then using the proper size socket and a torque wrench,
evenly tightening the wheel nuts in the proper sequence
to the proper torque specification.

For an accurate torque wrench reading, the final turn of
the nut must be tightened with the torque wrench.
When removing a wheel, loosen and remove the wheel
nuts using a standard wrench. "

My take on that is that they're saying final torque is to be done with a torque wrench. How do you even toque a wheel with the car in the air with a torque wrench? I guess you could have someone/something hold the brakes. I'm genuinely curious how you do it.
 
Torque sticks totally work unless you have a HE-MAN impact wrench or something. When using the right one, 90 psi, the nuts always turn before the tq wrench clicks.
 
I and a garage mechanic ran a test on a 80LB torque stick vs a torque wrench. If the torque stick was used with an impact wrench and the pressure was turned off in a few seconds after the torque reached the stop then the torque stick was to to within 5% of rated. However; if we pretended to be a Ham-fisted wash boy running the impact wrench and left it under pressure foe a minuit or so the the error jumped to +30%. Torque sticks tend to be fool proof but NOT idiot proof. Ed
 
Originally Posted By: robertcope
Some googling came up with this: http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/TSb/DownloadPdf?id=183641



It's sad GM does most things by half-measure, so techs have to fake it or ignore the TSBs.

In my case, I use a cheapo cordless impact gun that only goes to 80 ft/lb as a nut runner to get nuts snug using
the criss-cross pattern, set the car down enough to put some weight on the wheel so it won't spin when I use
the torque wrench in the same criss-cross pattern to 100 ft/lb. It's a harmless compromise that's fast and safe,
spec on the cordless is 1,000 inch/lbs (~80Ft/lb) and verified by testing nuts tightened with it.

FYI - some cheap torque wrenches only function in the CW direction only! Only a good torque wrench will function in the
CCW direction too!

Related story: Yrs ago the toolshop cranked out a tricky series of die sets, they had a specific procedure to install
into the punch press including torquing it down. Worked great, but 8 months later set up guys changed it and used torque sticks
and impact tools to set the dies, then months of breakages came and no one had a clue as to why! Till a toolroom guy worked late
and saw the press shop set one the 'problem' dies - the dirt hit the fan the next day! The lost production, repairs and scrap parts
amounted to $55,000 up to that point! Me? at the time I thought it was a one-off!

I don't wanna fly an airline where techs take short cuts like Torque Sticks and impact guns!

It's too bad GM fails to deliver completely thought-out TSBs techs will follow.
 
Not sure I see the difference in me using torque sticks and you using a lightweight impact gun.
 
Torque sticks are to a torque wrench as Ron Popeil is to Lee Bosley. Sure they'll both get the job done but...



4hw8xs.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: i_hate_autofraud
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: i_hate_autofraud


I've looked at the instructions that come with Torque Sticks, so far I've never seen any that said to use a specific
size impact gun or use a torque setting on an impact wrench to get the torque sticks to work correctly.

At my last tire change, I asked the tech to check torques by checking the release torque after the tech insisting on using
torque sticks - he was surprised that a 100 ft/lb torque stick released at 280 ft/lb - way over!

Even techs with yrs of experience in a garage are rushing to beat the clock and don't have time to find out if
the tools they use are actually as good as claimed.

As far as garage owners are concerned, get the cars in and out and get paid, to customers in the waiting
area staring thru the window, colored torque sticks look "professional".

Sad eh?



Do you mean that you asked the tech to check the torque in the loosening direction, to determine the point at which the lug broke loose? Break-away torque will always be higher than the torque indicated while the nut is actually rotating.




When you check break-away torque right after tightening, it will be higher by 5 - 10%, but not 100% over. When repeated with hand torqued nuts and then measuring the release torque, it was just 5 to 10% high. If you wait for rust to form in the threads it would be more, but still not 200 ft/lbs, etc on a hand torqued 100 ft/lbs.

Also note GM in it's TechLink publication to dealers Nov 2010 said impact guns are no longer endorsed and so neither are torque sticks.



Yep, reading comprehension > me. I was thinking initial torque value compared to later, when finally broken free.
 
Originally Posted By: robertcope
Not sure I see the difference in me using torque sticks and you using a lightweight impact gun.



I already know the cordless impact gun can't go over 80Ft/lb, (tested it) so there's no harm on 100 ft/lb torque spec application, I use it
mostly as a nutrunner to save time and my hands and no torque sticks, then finish with a torque click wrench.


The following GM doc presumes techs are using full power impact guns found in all shops:

GM Techlink Nov 2010: (wheel torquing)
https://www.box.com/s/loa0tl5pdu3obgtej86y
 
I bought one off ebay for $15 shipped. 65 ft lb rating.

I wanted a low setting, so that I can "torque" on my wheel studs, then finish properly with a hand torque wrench. 80-90 lb depending on the car, usually
Works great so far.
 
Okay, well, by your logic: Eddie and I have tested torque sticks and found them to be accurate enough to use for initial tightening. So, again, I see no difference.

I'll shut up now, because clearly we're just going in circles.
 
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
So I called around to two auto parts stores, and stopped by in person to two more after having them say they have them. One showed me a torque wrench, the other showed me a 4 way tire iron. I literally said, how are you in the auto parts business and don't even know what a torque stick is?

Is this some secret thing that only I know about?


They are pretty much worthless, they can be somewhat (not very) accurate if the gun being used is a high powered gun and a double hammer mechanism. They do not work with pin/twin clutch impacts like those commonly found on cordless or electrics or god forbid a high power air impact using a pin/twin clutch e.g. Nitro Cat.
 
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