AR-15's For $399.99

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Originally Posted By: Linctex
None that I have heard of.


I guess I should have said "None that I have heard of PERSONALLY"

Digging on the web, I did find some here and there.

Many of the broken bolt threads are the DIRECT result of poor rifle maintenance.

I guess you would be justifiable in saying "...if you only put 100 rounds down range per year they could be a good value but I wouldn't trust my life on them IF THEY ARE NEARING 5,000 rounds."

But to say a brand-new (well, broken-in) $399 AR-15 can't be trusted to protect you in a "non-combat" situation smells like fear-mongering to me.


Do good rifle maintenance (like any responsible owner should), Keep calm, carry on, Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition.
 
I guess I should give some background. I own a few AR's in 3 different calibers. one from Bravo Company, one Noveske, one Colt, a few hand builts and 2 Andersons that I recently purchased from Brownells during the Super Bowl Half Time Sale for $299 each. Yes, I typed that correctly.

I bought the 2 Andersons for my daughters so they could shoot dirt clods and cans in the back yard. Neither would function reliably until I installed an extractor spring upgrade kit. Castle nut and gas key were not staked. No Chrome lining in the barrel. Triggers felt like pulling a plow thru a rock garden (upraded the triggers to ALG ACT). After some tender loving care they are working well and I am OK with what I bought. They serve their purpose very well now.

I don't hate on anyone for buying a cheap Car, Power Washer, Generator or Gun. In the end, you get what you pay for when buying something that was designed to a price point.

Firearms. No other product gets people more emotionally involved, it's such an interesting phenomena. Why is that? Oh well. This is why I try to refrain from making posts in the firearms section.
 
Here is one for you: 9310 vs 158 bolts.

158 is the mil-spec and has been used since the 60's as far as I know. Metallurgy has approved quite a bit since then, and many consider 9310 to be superior for an AR bolt. Lots of people talk down 9310 because its not "mil-spec", when in actuality, it is likely a better, more durable material to make bolts from.
 
Thanks for bringing this up. I would be very interested in seeing actual scientific comparisons between 9310 and C158 in AR-15 bolts. I have issues with people making comments that something is "likely better" Metallurgy is very complicated and I would very much like to see what the PHDs have to say in this arena. Could you supply us with this info for us please? This is BITOG and we do love actual scientific data over what was posted on the internet.

That said, I have never been a blind fanboy of C158 steel when it comes to bolts. I do like the new bolts from Sharps using S7 Tool Steel. They did have some problems in the beginning with heat treating but they seem to have figured it out since then. Every bolt they make is Magnetic Particle Inspected, High Pressure Tested, and Shot Peened.

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Here is one for you: 9310 vs 158 bolts.

158 is the mil-spec and has been used since the 60's as far as I know. Metallurgy has approved quite a bit since then, and many consider 9310 to be superior for an AR bolt. Lots of people talk down 9310 because its not "mil-spec", when in actuality, it is likely a better, more durable material to make bolts from.
 
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DPMS Oracle AR15 is a good deal on sale - I don't need two of them but I know people who have and they feed just about anything reliably and are capable of 2 MOA at 150 yrds with a scope ... Would be great with a red dot sight as well . A Colt 6920 , Windham or a Daniel Defense AR - 15 would be nicer for someone with the money who could appreciate the difference in higher end quality .
 
It really boils down to want you want to do with it, and how often you shoot it. If a non-chrome lined barrel functions well with your ammo selection, then there should be no reason to no grab it if needed in a life or death situation.

You bring up a good point with triggers.... some of them are awful. Just plain awful. I bought a "black Friday DPMS" from Academy and the gas key and castle nut are staked :thumbs up:, but the trigger is junk. Not the worse ever, but I hunt coyotes and this trigger is NOT coyote ready.

Metallurgically speaking - - I would not use a tool steel bolt.
If it's anything like "other tools steels" it's probably too brittle for this application.
A steel bolt that stretches .0001" will still function, but one that breaks clean - won't.
 
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory

I don't hate on anyone for buying a cheap Car, Power Washer, Generator or Gun. In the end, you get what you pay for when buying something that was designed to a price point.


I agree with this...

What I don't agree on is saying a that cheap DPMS Oracle (just for instance) can't be counted on to protect you in a life or death situation. My CCW are always Taurus pistols, because:

1) They are cheap. If it's confiscated & I never see it again, I'm only out $300. I think people who carry $1500 Kimbers are idiots for this same reason.
2) I have TESTED my CCW pistols, and they are reliable.

I would expect the same responsible behavior of anyone.
Find what ammo works best, keep the weapon clean and lubed, and practice with it to be proficient.

I get tired of so much snobbery (not directed at you) from people who think a budget weapon (under $600 or whatever) can't be depended on to save your life, but look at all the people getting killed with Lorcins, Davis's and Jennings pistols.
 
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Are you buying into the "Hype"?

I have some cheap AK-47 variants, and I have never had a failure of ANY kind.....
I seriously doubt they are made from steel any better than melted-down Trabants.

Any to think that parts must be shot-peened and magnafluxed to be reliable is simply laughable.

I have YET... YET to hear of a "major problem" developing with these cheaper AR-15 variants with under 10,000 rounds through them. 95+% (probably even more) of AR-15 owners won't put 10,000 rounds through in their lifetime.

The AR-15 fanbois seem to think anything is junk under $1500... it just isn't so.

Show me proof where these "under $800" AR-15's are consistently flying apart at the seams.
Sure, there's the occasional "lemon" - but everybody has those once in a while.


This ^^^^^^^^^^

I get so sick and tired of this whole, "Wouldn't trust my life to it", mantra of complete nonsense. How many of these people who make these claims have had to actually, "trust their life" to ANY firearm? 1 in 100,000..... If that. ANY clean, lubricated, mass produced AR-15, with dependable ammunition will serve it's purpose under those conditions.

Besides, most all of the major AR-15 manufacturers buy their components, (bolts, bolt carriers, firing pins, extractors, barrels, lower forgings), from the same few manufacturers who supply them for the entire industry. I've pulled CMT, (Connecticut Machine Tool), bolts out of Colt's, as well as Stag Arms guns. So no one is going to tell me there is that much difference in any of them. Especially in civilian guns that don't see anywhere near the use and abuse military weapons do. Let alone the amount of ammunition at .35+ cents a pop, every time they pull the trigger.

And this whole "Mil-Spec" mantra is more nonsense. Mil-Spec means it meets a certain military specification for that particular product. It DOES NOT mean it's the best product obtainable. Be it food, clothing, paint, lubricant, ammunition, or guns.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I need another one like I need a hole in the head. Lol.
How many do you really need? Just 1 more.
 
Bargain or Junk?

Personally, I'd pass on the ORACLE and shop the PSA sales putting together a budget rifle for a similar price point which would have a better 4150 Nitride barrel and C158 bolt and maybe even getting a better handguard/rail and stock of my liking.

A little food for thought...
 
Thanks for this thread. I'm thinking of buying my 1st AR, so all the good info has been helpful. Anyone care to share their thoughts on the Del-Ton Echo 316H Lite? I cannot seem to find much info on it. I know it's very basic, no forward assist or dust cover, but even so, I'm wondering it it's worth $380.
 
Originally Posted By: FloatingBrick
Thanks for this thread. I'm thinking of buying my 1st AR, so all the good info has been helpful. Anyone care to share their thoughts on the Del-Ton Echo 316H Lite? I cannot seem to find much info on it. I know it's very basic, no forward assist or dust cover, but even so, I'm wondering it it's worth $380.


You know how many idiots I see at the gun range, who are shooting a brand new AR15 they just bought, and the darn gun doesn't even have sights or a red dot on it?

That Del-Ton is super cheap. You will need to add $100 for sights or a red dot, in which case you could have bought a Smith Sport or Ruger that comes with sights and has a better reputation as well.

Get the Smith Sport or Ruger if you are on a budget. That's my advice. The Ruger is $449 shipped from PSA right now.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/ruger-16-ar15-5-56-adjustable-rapid-deploy-rear-sight-rifle-8500.html
 
I appreciate the link bubbatime. I understand about the lack of sights, and am planning on a red dot (for whatever I might buy), but I was curious about the quality of the Del-Ton. You answered that too. I'll take a look at the Smith and Rugers.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Are you buying into the "Hype"?

I have some cheap AK-47 variants, and I have never had a failure of ANY kind.....
I seriously doubt they are made from steel any better than melted-down Trabants.

Any to think that parts must be shot-peened and magnafluxed to be reliable is simply laughable.

I have YET... YET to hear of a "major problem" developing with these cheaper AR-15 variants with under 10,000 rounds through them. 95+% (probably even more) of AR-15 owners won't put 10,000 rounds through in their lifetime.

The AR-15 fanbois seem to think anything is junk under $1500... it just isn't so.

Show me proof where these "under $800" AR-15's are consistently flying apart at the seams.
Sure, there's the occasional "lemon" - but everybody has those once in a while.


This ^^^^^^^^^^

I get so sick and tired of this whole, "Wouldn't trust my life to it", mantra of complete nonsense. How many of these people who make these claims have had to actually, "trust their life" to ANY firearm? 1 in 100,000..... If that. ANY clean, lubricated, mass produced AR-15, with dependable ammunition will serve it's purpose under those conditions.

Besides, most all of the major AR-15 manufacturers buy their components, (bolts, bolt carriers, firing pins, extractors, barrels, lower forgings), from the same few manufacturers who supply them for the entire industry. I've pulled CMT, (Connecticut Machine Tool), bolts out of Colt's, as well as Stag Arms guns. So no one is going to tell me there is that much difference in any of them. Especially in civilian guns that don't see anywhere near the use and abuse military weapons do. Let alone the amount of ammunition at .35+ cents a pop, every time they pull the trigger.

And this whole "Mil-Spec" mantra is more nonsense. Mil-Spec means it meets a certain military specification for that particular product. It DOES NOT mean it's the best product obtainable. Be it food, clothing, paint, lubricant, ammunition, or guns.


Milspec does often mean something, then again it doesn't. The term has taken on more of a sales pitch in popular terminology than anything else. Aside from that having done my time in the dirt military gear,any of it, is often substandard to anything you could grab off the bargain shelf at Gander mt. Been there done that every chance I could get away with it.
whistle.gif


There's really nothing special about Uncles 16's compared to what you could buy off PSA or the others. Triggers all the same as near as I could feel too, a bit stiff but who wants target triggers on a military gun? If going that route it's better to go the other gun route too.
 
Mil M16/ M4 are select fire the milspec parts holdup better than the low end bolt action steel ARs. Buy the AR that fits the need. Parts aren't parts. I would never shoot an AR enough to need to clean it so I wouldn't worry about the bolt action steel. There are some hard core high volume shooters that benefit from the High quality steel that Milspec affords.I don't really care to shoot rifles that much.
 
Here is the best deal yet. "BOGO", (Buy 1 Get 1 FREE), for just $700.00 after factory rebate. That's only $350.00 per rifle! Plus you get 120 rounds of free ammo! And they're Oracle's with forward assist. NOT Sportacle's that lack both the dust cover and forward assist. They must have pallets of these things stacked up to the roof.

 
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