...any words of wisdom from UOA veterans aside from the Blackstone packaging instructions?
Taking first UOA sample this morning (Sat)..
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Well you do not say what method. I assume during draining of oil. Let the oil run into drain bucket a bit then collect the sample.
You want a good sample. So a sample after a week of very short drives might have fuel contamination.
What is the reason for the UOA, or not reason, just for fun?
You want a good sample. So a sample after a week of very short drives might have fuel contamination.
What is the reason for the UOA, or not reason, just for fun?
Originally Posted By: tig1
These types of UOAs are more suited to determine if the oil is contaminated with dirt, fuel, or coolant.
Or, in Blackstone's case, dirt or coolant.
To the OP, nothing tricky here, just try to fill the sample bottle mid-drain. Some have found mailing the sample bottle on its own creates problems at the post office. I pack mine in a small box.
At a time when even the most uninformed, neglectful owner using the most marginal lubricants will get 100,000 plus miles from almost any new car, I've begun to question the value of UOAs. If UOAs say all is well it may be false assurance; if they say there's a problem good luck diagnosing the issue or getting a vehicle manufacturer to take it seriously enough to do anything. Ignorance may very well equal bliss in this case.
These types of UOAs are more suited to determine if the oil is contaminated with dirt, fuel, or coolant.
Or, in Blackstone's case, dirt or coolant.
To the OP, nothing tricky here, just try to fill the sample bottle mid-drain. Some have found mailing the sample bottle on its own creates problems at the post office. I pack mine in a small box.
At a time when even the most uninformed, neglectful owner using the most marginal lubricants will get 100,000 plus miles from almost any new car, I've begun to question the value of UOAs. If UOAs say all is well it may be false assurance; if they say there's a problem good luck diagnosing the issue or getting a vehicle manufacturer to take it seriously enough to do anything. Ignorance may very well equal bliss in this case.
Originally Posted By: Danh
At a time when even the most uninformed, neglectful owner using the most marginal lubricants will get 100,000 plus miles from almost any new car, I've begun to question the value of UOAs. If UOAs say all is well it may be false assurance; if they say there's a problem good luck diagnosing the issue or getting a vehicle manufacturer to take it seriously enough to do anything. Ignorance may very well equal bliss in this case.
No it's not ignorance. Using a major brand lubricant meeting the required specifications for the engine will never yield useful information from a UOA in regards to engine longevity. The only times I've ever gotten a UOA is to test for suspected coolant or fuel contamination. But with what I've seen from Blackstone lately I'm giving up on the ability for a $30 UOA to detect fuel. And as far as "dirt" goes, I don't even know what part of the UOA shows that.
At a time when even the most uninformed, neglectful owner using the most marginal lubricants will get 100,000 plus miles from almost any new car, I've begun to question the value of UOAs. If UOAs say all is well it may be false assurance; if they say there's a problem good luck diagnosing the issue or getting a vehicle manufacturer to take it seriously enough to do anything. Ignorance may very well equal bliss in this case.
No it's not ignorance. Using a major brand lubricant meeting the required specifications for the engine will never yield useful information from a UOA in regards to engine longevity. The only times I've ever gotten a UOA is to test for suspected coolant or fuel contamination. But with what I've seen from Blackstone lately I'm giving up on the ability for a $30 UOA to detect fuel. And as far as "dirt" goes, I don't even know what part of the UOA shows that.
DI engine, very dirty even though the oil ONLY has 3200 miles on it and is changed in Jan. Smells of fuel also.
I suspect some gasoline is in the oil. Smells of fuel.
Originally Posted By: Speak2Mountain
I suspect some gasoline is in the oil. Smells of fuel.
In my opinion, Blackstone has demonstrated the inability to accurately detect fuel in oil with their flashpoint estimation. I would not trust any numbers they might report.
I suspect some gasoline is in the oil. Smells of fuel.
In my opinion, Blackstone has demonstrated the inability to accurately detect fuel in oil with their flashpoint estimation. I would not trust any numbers they might report.
Originally Posted By: Speak2Mountain
I suspect some gasoline is in the oil. Smells of fuel.
If that's your concern, don't expect anything useful from Blackstone. This has been discussed many times here, but Blackstone's fuel contamination test is laughably lacking, almost always grossly understating high levels of contamination.
If you want false assurances that fuel isn't a problem, go with Blackstone. If you want an accurate read on how big the problem is, go to a lab that uses gas chromatography to test for fuel dilution, like Polaris. If this is a DI engine it's most likely "normal". And, unless a check-engine light is aglow don't expect any help from the manufacturer (I've been down this particular rabbit hole).
I suspect some gasoline is in the oil. Smells of fuel.
If that's your concern, don't expect anything useful from Blackstone. This has been discussed many times here, but Blackstone's fuel contamination test is laughably lacking, almost always grossly understating high levels of contamination.
If you want false assurances that fuel isn't a problem, go with Blackstone. If you want an accurate read on how big the problem is, go to a lab that uses gas chromatography to test for fuel dilution, like Polaris. If this is a DI engine it's most likely "normal". And, unless a check-engine light is aglow don't expect any help from the manufacturer (I've been down this particular rabbit hole).
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Originally Posted By: kschachn
Danh said:
Originally Posted By: Ihatetochangeoil
There are major issues with blanket statements like this. First off, if a UOA from ANY company shows unusually high iron, silicon, potassium, wear metals, etc., there are mechanical reasons[/b] for it. For example, I've read of a city bus (I forgot where) that started doing UOA in attempts to prolong the OCI (Oil change intervals). The first UOA came back with Iron ppm in the thousands with relatively few miles on the oil. Mechanical investigation revealed a loose rocker arm bolt. The rocker arm was replaced, the bolt was tightened, the oil changed, and appropriate gaskets replaced; and the next UOA came back normal. How is this NOT adding greatly to engine longevity? Who can say with certainty that the loose bolt may not have led to valve train failure followed by shrapnel within the engine's moving parts while running and in a matter of seconds you have a pile of scrap metal? If you read "tales from the oily side" on Blackstone's website, there are numerous stories of such instances. http://www.blackstone-labs.com/tales-from-the-oily-side.php
I have personally saved two engines that had UOA come back with high potassium (antifreeze) in the oil. There isn't a mechanic in the nation who can look at a dipstick and tell you what you will learn from a UOA.
Secondly, I always pay extra and obtain particle counts with the UOA. This WILL tell you how "dirty" the oil is. It won't tell you what the particles are, but it does show overall contamination in the oil. And since oil itself does not wear out, contamination itself is one of the limiting factors as to why we change oil to begin with.
If you think a particle count doesn't matter, take a few minutes to read this: http://lifetime-reliability.com/store/ma...Cleanliness.pdf
Okay. I did mention coolant contamination, and if you wish to argue over the one instance with easily correctable mechanical failure then you win.
Guess I should be doing it more often then. Maybe I'll get more miles out of my vehicles than I would otherwise.
There are major issues with blanket statements like this. First off, if a UOA from ANY company shows unusually high iron, silicon, potassium, wear metals, etc., there are mechanical reasons[/b] for it. For example, I've read of a city bus (I forgot where) that started doing UOA in attempts to prolong the OCI (Oil change intervals). The first UOA came back with Iron ppm in the thousands with relatively few miles on the oil. Mechanical investigation revealed a loose rocker arm bolt. The rocker arm was replaced, the bolt was tightened, the oil changed, and appropriate gaskets replaced; and the next UOA came back normal. How is this NOT adding greatly to engine longevity? Who can say with certainty that the loose bolt may not have led to valve train failure followed by shrapnel within the engine's moving parts while running and in a matter of seconds you have a pile of scrap metal? If you read "tales from the oily side" on Blackstone's website, there are numerous stories of such instances. http://www.blackstone-labs.com/tales-from-the-oily-side.php
I have personally saved two engines that had UOA come back with high potassium (antifreeze) in the oil. There isn't a mechanic in the nation who can look at a dipstick and tell you what you will learn from a UOA.
Secondly, I always pay extra and obtain particle counts with the UOA. This WILL tell you how "dirty" the oil is. It won't tell you what the particles are, but it does show overall contamination in the oil. And since oil itself does not wear out, contamination itself is one of the limiting factors as to why we change oil to begin with.
If you think a particle count doesn't matter, take a few minutes to read this: http://lifetime-reliability.com/store/ma...Cleanliness.pdf
Okay. I did mention coolant contamination, and if you wish to argue over the one instance with easily correctable mechanical failure then you win.
Guess I should be doing it more often then. Maybe I'll get more miles out of my vehicles than I would otherwise.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Danh
At a time when even the most uninformed, neglectful owner using the most marginal lubricants will get 100,000 plus miles from almost any new car, I've begun to question the value of UOAs. If UOAs say all is well it may be false assurance; if they say there's a problem good luck diagnosing the issue or getting a vehicle manufacturer to take it seriously enough to do anything. Ignorance may very well equal bliss in this case.
No it's not ignorance. Using a major brand lubricant meeting the required specifications for the engine will never yield useful information from a UOA in regards to engine longevity. The only times I've ever gotten a UOA is to test for suspected coolant or fuel contamination. But with what I've seen from Blackstone lately I'm giving up on the ability for a $30 UOA to detect fuel. And as far as "dirt" goes, I don't even know what part of the UOA shows that.
Well in a UOA, silicon is dirt. NAPA is $16 for a UOA with TBN. Blackstone is expensive for no gain.
In my case I am doing some UOAs of my truck's oil to see if I can extend the OCI with T6 and a real bypass filter. The truck also takes almost 4 gallons of oil for an oil change, so its getting close to $100.
Originally Posted By: Danh
At a time when even the most uninformed, neglectful owner using the most marginal lubricants will get 100,000 plus miles from almost any new car, I've begun to question the value of UOAs. If UOAs say all is well it may be false assurance; if they say there's a problem good luck diagnosing the issue or getting a vehicle manufacturer to take it seriously enough to do anything. Ignorance may very well equal bliss in this case.
No it's not ignorance. Using a major brand lubricant meeting the required specifications for the engine will never yield useful information from a UOA in regards to engine longevity. The only times I've ever gotten a UOA is to test for suspected coolant or fuel contamination. But with what I've seen from Blackstone lately I'm giving up on the ability for a $30 UOA to detect fuel. And as far as "dirt" goes, I don't even know what part of the UOA shows that.
Well in a UOA, silicon is dirt. NAPA is $16 for a UOA with TBN. Blackstone is expensive for no gain.
In my case I am doing some UOAs of my truck's oil to see if I can extend the OCI with T6 and a real bypass filter. The truck also takes almost 4 gallons of oil for an oil change, so its getting close to $100.
Originally Posted By: JMJNet
What is the goal for doing the UOA?
You don't send something and pay money for the sake of doing it???
Primarily, You want to establish a "Trend".... that way, when sharp spikes vary from the trend, you will know to investigate for problems.
It's also a good idea to look for TBN and TAN numbers to see if you are getting the expected life from your oil. Most people find they are changing their oil far too often.
What is the goal for doing the UOA?
You don't send something and pay money for the sake of doing it???
Primarily, You want to establish a "Trend".... that way, when sharp spikes vary from the trend, you will know to investigate for problems.
It's also a good idea to look for TBN and TAN numbers to see if you are getting the expected life from your oil. Most people find they are changing their oil far too often.
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Danh
At a time when even the most uninformed, neglectful owner using the most marginal lubricants will get 100,000 plus miles from almost any new car, I've begun to question the value of UOAs. If UOAs say all is well it may be false assurance; if they say there's a problem good luck diagnosing the issue or getting a vehicle manufacturer to take it seriously enough to do anything. Ignorance may very well equal bliss in this case.
No it's not ignorance. Using a major brand lubricant meeting the required specifications for the engine will never yield useful information from a UOA in regards to engine longevity. The only times I've ever gotten a UOA is to test for suspected coolant or fuel contamination. But with what I've seen from Blackstone lately I'm giving up on the ability for a $30 UOA to detect fuel. And as far as "dirt" goes, I don't even know what part of the UOA shows that.
Well in a UOA, silicon is dirt. NAPA is $16 for a UOA with TBN. Blackstone is expensive for no gain.
In my case I am doing some UOAs of my truck's oil to see if I can extend the OCI with T6 and a real bypass filter. The truck also takes almost 4 gallons of oil for an oil change, so its getting close to $100.
I ran t6 for 40k in my truck with oem filtration. now I run donaldson blue filters and an amsoil bypass eabp120. I have uOA before and after on at least two trucks it's a shame it's such a pain to add photos to the site. I will email them to you or anybody else who's interested I am now running schaeffer 9000 with my Amsoil bypass and great results so far Im at 20k miles and seeing great numbers and .3 mpg gain on this 4k gallon usage ( previous usage was on 3500 gallons) . I now have three trucks with bypass systems and Donaldson blue filters with schaeffer 9000. I will be adding it to more trucks shortly I plan on changing the full flow Donaldson blues at 30000 miles. My TBN at 20,000 miles is still at 6. The LEad count compared to the Rotella oil went down from 15 PPM to 3, the lead is the reason I change the 40K oil, the iron was at 75 PPM and the TBN with down around 2.8. I will run this oil out until I see reason to change it. My testing will take a while because I'm only putting about 90,000 miles a year on each truck. These trucks are run extremely heavy extremely hard short-haul. If you have any questions on my setup I'll be glad to answer them for you I have documented everything well. Cheers!
Just a quick edit before anybody says anything two of the three trucks run in completely different conditions with two very number oriented people driving myself and my father, both run the short distance short haul heavy loads in two different states same trip day-in-day-out 5 times a day, with the Schaeffer oil both of us are seeing the increased fuel mileage . Also prior to the Schaeffer one truck was running T6 the other was running Mystic
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Danh
At a time when even the most uninformed, neglectful owner using the most marginal lubricants will get 100,000 plus miles from almost any new car, I've begun to question the value of UOAs. If UOAs say all is well it may be false assurance; if they say there's a problem good luck diagnosing the issue or getting a vehicle manufacturer to take it seriously enough to do anything. Ignorance may very well equal bliss in this case.
No it's not ignorance. Using a major brand lubricant meeting the required specifications for the engine will never yield useful information from a UOA in regards to engine longevity. The only times I've ever gotten a UOA is to test for suspected coolant or fuel contamination. But with what I've seen from Blackstone lately I'm giving up on the ability for a $30 UOA to detect fuel. And as far as "dirt" goes, I don't even know what part of the UOA shows that.
Well in a UOA, silicon is dirt. NAPA is $16 for a UOA with TBN. Blackstone is expensive for no gain.
In my case I am doing some UOAs of my truck's oil to see if I can extend the OCI with T6 and a real bypass filter. The truck also takes almost 4 gallons of oil for an oil change, so its getting close to $100.
I ran t6 for 40k in my truck with oem filtration. now I run donaldson blue filters and an amsoil bypass eabp120. I have uOA before and after on at least two trucks it's a shame it's such a pain to add photos to the site. I will email them to you or anybody else who's interested I am now running schaeffer 9000 with my Amsoil bypass and great results so far Im at 20k miles and seeing great numbers and .3 mpg gain on this 4k gallon usage ( previous usage was on 3500 gallons) . I now have three trucks with bypass systems and Donaldson blue filters with schaeffer 9000. I will be adding it to more trucks shortly I plan on changing the full flow Donaldson blues at 30000 miles. My TBN at 20,000 miles is still at 6. The LEad count compared to the Rotella oil went down from 15 PPM to 3, the lead is the reason I change the 40K oil, the iron was at 75 PPM and the TBN with down around 2.8. I will run this oil out until I see reason to change it. My testing will take a while because I'm only putting about 90,000 miles a year on each truck. These trucks are run extremely heavy extremely hard short-haul. If you have any questions on my setup I'll be glad to answer them for you I have documented everything well. Cheers!
Just a quick edit before anybody says anything two of the three trucks run in completely different conditions with two very number oriented people driving myself and my father, both run the short distance short haul heavy loads in two different states same trip day-in-day-out 5 times a day, with the Schaeffer oil both of us are seeing the increased fuel mileage . Also prior to the Schaeffer one truck was running T6 the other was running Mystic
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