Battery for Stop/Start Equipped Vehicles

[SubLGT]

http://www.moderntiredealer.com/article/722503/prepare-now-for-start-stop-systems

some excerpts:
Quote:
Johnson Controls predicts start-stop systems will find their way into more than 40% of new vehicles sold in the U.S. and will number over 40 million registered vehicles by 2020. Automakers will continue to make refinements to the systems to improve the consumer experience. Says Gospodarek, “In the coming years, you will begin to see a few new vehicles with dual batteries for more energy availability to power electrical accessories as well as power new autonomous driving features in the vehicles, such as autonomous emergency braking, self-steering and auto-park. These dual battery setups will be either AGM+AGM or AGM+Li-ion.”

Shops need battery testing equipment optimized for start-stop absorbent glass mat (AGM) and enhanced flooded batteries (EFB) and appropriate charging equipment.

Munsell [battery product specialist for General Motor Corp.’s ACDelco brand] says that for vehicles manufactured by General Motors, “we neither recommend, nor endorse replacing an AGM battery with an EFB battery. An EFB battery will have a different charge profile than an AGM battery, which will lead to premature failure of the battery.”

Munsell says AGM batteries require special care when charged offline. “This special care is to make sure that the charger has an AGM switch that will supply lower voltage to the battery during the charging process. This lower voltage is required due to the charge receptivity of AGM batteries. The maximum charging voltage for an AGM battery at 80 degrees Fahrenheit is between 14.4 volts and 14.6 volts. If the ambient temperature is higher than that, charging voltage goes down,” says Munsell.

 

[KrisZ]

One more reason to disable the feature or avoid it altogether.

 

[Greggy_D]

I just purchased a new Fusion that has the start/stop technology. It was a little disconcerting at first. I usually disable it when there is heavy traffic or if I want the A/C to cool the car down.

From a technology point of view, I did have some concerning thoughts about the battery and starter. How much are these things going to be when they bite the dust down the road?

 

[OneEyeJack]

Greggy_D, you're the early adopter and you'll be telling us how it's going.

I'd be interested in a comparison between using it and not using it on the same commute for a while. If it saves 1 or 2 mpg I'd opt for turning it off and saving the wear and tear. The comments by someone like you would be much better than something from an EPA test or a manufacturer.

Years ago I used to commute between Las Vegas and San Diego. On the way to San Diego going down Hwy 15 there's a long downhill section. I'd turn off the engine on my 63 VW bus and coast. With a bit of a tail wind I could go faster with the engine off than with the engine running, usually between 80 to 90 mph for that run. I did it for the fun of it but it saved on gas, too. That was my adoption of start/stop technology, one stop.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted By: Greggy_D
I just purchased a new Fusion that has the start/stop technology. It was a little disconcerting at first. I usually disable it when there is heavy traffic or if I want the A/C to cool the car down.

From a technology point of view, I did have some concerning thoughts about the battery and starter. How much are these things going to be when they bite the dust down the road?



While I understand your concern-the same thing was said about electronic ignition systems-and they have proven to be very reliable. My son has a new F150 pickup-he says it's pretty much seamless.

If you think about the start/stop technology on it's own-it's pretty simple-or as simple as you inserting a key and starting the vehicle.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

I've used AGM batteries (Optima) for my last two vehicles; they work well so far (and carry a full replacement 3-year warranty, none of that pro-rating [censored]). I've replaced one, it came with the car and lasted me another seven years (so about $20 a year), which is very long when you have winter starts to deal with. Five years is considered pretty good around here.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: Greggy_D


From a technology point of view, I did have some concerning thoughts about the battery and starter. How much are these things going to be when they bite the dust down the road?

The automakers started going with a PMGR design - brushless and more torque to spin the motor, not as beefy as the Denso offset gear design but one less thing to worry about. AGM batteries have been out for a while, the Germans started using them first and then Toyota called for AGM as the "auxiliary" battery on their hybrids. The charging system does need to be AGM "aware" - hence why you hear about battery coding on BMWs and VW/Audis.

The transmission does need to be tweaked for start-stop - they do use more efficient oil pumps or even electric auxiliary oil pumps to "prime" them as soon as the engine is spinning again.

 

[Wolf359]

For whatever reason, the second battery doesn't seem to last that long. Mercedes put it in some of their E350's in 2014 and there are lots of people complaining about how they have to replace the battery that is part of the start/stop system. Many hate it too, but there's no way to permanently disable it, you can shut it off, but the next time you start the car, it's on by default.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: CKN
While I understand your concern-the same thing was said about electronic ignition systems-and they have proven to be very reliable.


The same thing happens whenever technology advances. There is a segment of the population that insists that it's going to cause more harm than good.

I remember the same thing when overhead valve engines replaced flathead engines, manual transmissions started having synchronizers, manual transmissions started having more than 3 forward gears, then 4 forward gears, when power brakes were introduced, when disc brakes became widespread, when power steering became the norm, when starters were moved off the floor into the ignition switch, when manual chokes gave way to automatic chokes, and then fuel injection, when computers were added to cars, and a whole host of other advancements.

Some things never change.

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
and a whole host of other advancements.


Electric lawn mowers, robotic vacuum cleaners, sealed for life transmissions, CVT transmissions, box store John Deere tractors, etc...

In other words we as consumers can challenge these so called "advancements" all we cant. Not all of them are good.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: CKN
While I understand your concern-the same thing was said about electronic ignition systems-and they have proven to be very reliable.


The same thing happens whenever technology advances. There is a segment of the population that insists that it's going to cause more harm than good.

I remember the same thing when overhead valve engines replaced flathead engines, manual transmissions started having synchronizers, manual transmissions started having more than 3 forward gears, then 4 forward gears, when power brakes were introduced, when disc brakes became widespread, when power steering became the norm, when starters were moved off the floor into the ignition switch, when manual chokes gave way to automatic chokes, and then fuel injection, when computers were added to cars, and a whole host of other advancements.

Some things never change.


Good post Sir!

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
and a whole host of other advancements.


Electric lawn mowers, robotic vacuum cleaners, sealed for life transmissions, CVT transmissions, box store John Deere tractors, etc...

In other words we as consumers can challenge these so called "advancements" all we cant. Not all of them are good.


I guess we can disagree-I have no knowledge of tractors-so I can't comment. But I see nothing wrong with the other "technology" you mentioned. Electric lawn mowers have their applications (for smaller lawns) robotic vacuums, (for light traffic areas) sealed for life transmissions came about because of ordinary (non-"BITOG types") overfilling transmissions, and many times they do last the life of the vehicle, CVT transmissions (I owned one-nothing was wrong with it-the car was traded in for other reasons). So-there we go.

 

[SilverSnake]

Our 2017 BMW has the start-stop system. I made sure that the system defaulted to the off position before I ordered the car for my wife. It will NEVER be turned on. I do like the fact that the car has a monster battery to support the system. It appears that the factory rating is 900 CCA. It tests at almost 1100 CCA at present. Nice to have all that reserve battery power.

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
and a whole host of other advancements.


Electric lawn mowers, robotic vacuum cleaners, sealed for life transmissions, CVT transmissions, box store John Deere tractors, etc...

In other words we as consumers can challenge these so called "advancements" all we cant. Not all of them are good.


I guess we can disagree-I have no knowledge of tractors-so I can't comment. But I see nothing wrong with the other "technology" you mentioned. Electric lawn mowers have their applications (for smaller lawns) robotic vacuums, (for light traffic areas) sealed for life transmissions came about because of ordinary (non-"BITOG types") overfilling transmissions, and many times they do last the life of the vehicle, CVT transmissions (I owned one-nothing was wrong with it-the car was traded in for other reasons). So-there we go.


I have a small lawn only, and use an electric lawnmower. Have been using it for over a decade now. It's quiet, doesn't require maintenance except I sharpened the blade last year aterrunning over 1 too many tree root, and starts first time every time. Parts are available should it ever fail, but it was cheap enough to consider buying new if the fix is more than $20.

sealed for life transmissions, not a huge fan. My transmission isn't sealed, but is lubed or life. I'll still change the oil at some point though, as my understanding of the vehicle life might extend beyond what trhe manufacturer envisioned. But they sure can work for some.

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: CKN
I guess we can disagree-I have no knowledge of tractors-so I can't comment. But I see nothing wrong with the other "technology" you mentioned. Electric lawn mowers have their applications (for smaller lawns) robotic vacuums, (for light traffic areas) sealed for life transmissions came about because of ordinary (non-"BITOG types") overfilling transmissions, and many times they do last the life of the vehicle, CVT transmissions (I owned one-nothing was wrong with it-the car was traded in for other reasons). So-there we go.


How about advances in automotive paint that is more eco-friendly which causes the front end to chip more easily? I sure hope that wasn't the sole reason you traded in the 2012 Subaru.

The start/stop feature may turn out to be ok but sometimes the early ones have issues until all the bugs are worked out. Honda had issues with the CVT when they first started using them in the 2013 Accords. The fix was to replace the entire unit. Now they seem to ok.

I drove a new Malibu with the S/S feature and didn't care for it at all. Maybe with some time I would become used to it.

 

[kb27]

I've replaced batteries on stop-start Japanese cars with regular lead-acid battery.
Didn't have any complains so far.

Even the original EFB battery didn't last long.
Less than 2 yrs here in Singapore, some with shorted-cell.

I did replaced some with EFB batteries.

But it's a new technology. Not enough data to see how long they will last.