4WD
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edyvw - so if he wanted to tow etc with the truck (40 grade) what about M1 Formula M with 3.7 HTHS & MB on both diesel & gas. I'm following this truck for succession planning ...
Durmax 2.8 I4
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Originally Posted By: sohccammer427
But then again, as mentioned in an earlier post, didn't the Dodge Eco change specs from a mid saps Euro to a CJ4?
They changed from the oil you are specified to use C3/Dexos II type to CJ4
Originally Posted By: sohccammer427
Wouldn't that shorten DPF life?
One thing to remember Low SAPS, High SAPS, they both still have SAPS which is basically ZDDP. About 25% less for "Low-SAPS". So you still have build up in the DPF/DOC its just the accumulation should be 25% less, its not exactly a zero sum game though. Realistically the only entry way for SAPS to get into the combustion chamber is through crankcase vapor, closed crankcase ventilation. I'm not seeing any oil loss between oil changes in my ecodiesel and no fuel dilution, the oil analysis shows good wear results.
When I see low SAPS oil and 100+ppm iron on an oil analysis you have wonder how well protected the engine is.
In the end I don't care what oil is used provided it gets the best analysis.
BTW, the duramax 2.8 and Ecodiesel are both made by VM Motori.
But then again, as mentioned in an earlier post, didn't the Dodge Eco change specs from a mid saps Euro to a CJ4?
They changed from the oil you are specified to use C3/Dexos II type to CJ4
Originally Posted By: sohccammer427
Wouldn't that shorten DPF life?
One thing to remember Low SAPS, High SAPS, they both still have SAPS which is basically ZDDP. About 25% less for "Low-SAPS". So you still have build up in the DPF/DOC its just the accumulation should be 25% less, its not exactly a zero sum game though. Realistically the only entry way for SAPS to get into the combustion chamber is through crankcase vapor, closed crankcase ventilation. I'm not seeing any oil loss between oil changes in my ecodiesel and no fuel dilution, the oil analysis shows good wear results.
When I see low SAPS oil and 100+ppm iron on an oil analysis you have wonder how well protected the engine is.
In the end I don't care what oil is used provided it gets the best analysis.
BTW, the duramax 2.8 and Ecodiesel are both made by VM Motori.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: BoiseRob
Originally Posted By: sohccammer427
Wouldn't that shorten DPF life?
No... The Ram's 6.7 Cummins uses the same oil with similar exhaust after-treatment...
Its slightly different, ecodiesel uses "post injection" to create exhaust regeneration, with the engines own fuel injectors, where as the cummins uses injected fuel into the exhaust for exhaust regeneration. Other than that they both use a DPF/DOC/SCR system thats both in common.
Alot of the reason for C3 oil use is post injection regen, with bio blend diesel the fear is, bio diesel thickens the oil. Which appears to be more myth then fact. But the manufactures still went with it.
Again it comes down to what is your oil analysis telling you.
Originally Posted By: sohccammer427
Wouldn't that shorten DPF life?
No... The Ram's 6.7 Cummins uses the same oil with similar exhaust after-treatment...
Its slightly different, ecodiesel uses "post injection" to create exhaust regeneration, with the engines own fuel injectors, where as the cummins uses injected fuel into the exhaust for exhaust regeneration. Other than that they both use a DPF/DOC/SCR system thats both in common.
Alot of the reason for C3 oil use is post injection regen, with bio blend diesel the fear is, bio diesel thickens the oil. Which appears to be more myth then fact. But the manufactures still went with it.
Again it comes down to what is your oil analysis telling you.
Originally Posted By: Fraser434
Originally Posted By: BoiseRob
Originally Posted By: sohccammer427
Wouldn't that shorten DPF life?
No... The Ram's 6.7 Cummins uses the same oil with similar exhaust after-treatment...
Its slightly different, ecodiesel uses "post injection" to create exhaust regeneration, with the engines own fuel injectors, where as the cummins uses injected fuel into the exhaust for exhaust regeneration. Other than that they both use a DPF/DOC/SCR system thats both in common.
Alot of the reason for C3 oil use is post injection regen, with bio blend diesel the fear is, bio diesel thickens the oil. Which appears to be more myth then fact. But the manufactures still went with it.
Again it comes down to what is your oil analysis telling you.
Well that sucks. I thought all manufacturers got away from the post injection cycle due to fuel dilution. That would explain why the oil had a strong odor during my last oil change. At least there was no increase in oil volume.
As far as the DPF, isn't there still a Federally mandatory 5 year emission warranty on all OEM emission systems?
Originally Posted By: BoiseRob
Originally Posted By: sohccammer427
Wouldn't that shorten DPF life?
No... The Ram's 6.7 Cummins uses the same oil with similar exhaust after-treatment...
Its slightly different, ecodiesel uses "post injection" to create exhaust regeneration, with the engines own fuel injectors, where as the cummins uses injected fuel into the exhaust for exhaust regeneration. Other than that they both use a DPF/DOC/SCR system thats both in common.
Alot of the reason for C3 oil use is post injection regen, with bio blend diesel the fear is, bio diesel thickens the oil. Which appears to be more myth then fact. But the manufactures still went with it.
Again it comes down to what is your oil analysis telling you.
Well that sucks. I thought all manufacturers got away from the post injection cycle due to fuel dilution. That would explain why the oil had a strong odor during my last oil change. At least there was no increase in oil volume.
As far as the DPF, isn't there still a Federally mandatory 5 year emission warranty on all OEM emission systems?
Originally Posted By: BoiseRob
...As far as the DPF, isn't there still a Federally mandatory 5 year emission warranty on all OEM emission systems?
It's kinda cryptic. Depends on whether it's gas or diesel, or California. Probably have to be a lawyer to decipher it.
Here's the 2017 GM emissions control system statement, but it takes you to go to another section for trucks:
Emission Control System Limited Warranty
For light duty trucks, see “How to Determine the Applicable Emissions Control Systems Warranty” under Emission Control System Warranty on pg. 21 for more information. Defects and performance for car and light-duty truck emission control systems are covered for the first 2 years or 24,000 miles, whichever comes first. From the first 2 years or 24,000 miles to 3 years or 36,000 miles defects in material or workmanship continue to be covered under the New Vehicle Limited Bumper-to-Bumper Warranty coverage. Specified major components are covered for the first 8 years or 80,000 miles, whichever comes first. Defects and performance for heavy duty truck emission control systems including those found in 6.6L Duramax® Diesel Engines are covered for the first 5 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first.
I have a VW that is part of the Dieselgate scandal. One of the reasons I decided to keep it and go with the fix (Gen 3's are fixable) is that they give you an amazing extended warranty that covers everything from fuel pumps, turbos, the DPF, the entire engine etc. Any questionable issues are to be in favor of the owner as part of the court order.
As far as oil dilution is concerned, I believe that's why VW allows no more than B20 biofuel. They say say that in higher concentrations, somehow some of the "bio" part gets past the rings and into the crankcase, effectually increasing the oil volume and diluting it. Or at least that's what I've read. I occasionally use B20 in the Dmax and the Tdi and in both vehicles the oil quantity has not increased at all.
...As far as the DPF, isn't there still a Federally mandatory 5 year emission warranty on all OEM emission systems?
It's kinda cryptic. Depends on whether it's gas or diesel, or California. Probably have to be a lawyer to decipher it.
Emission Control System Limited Warranty
For light duty trucks, see “How to Determine the Applicable Emissions Control Systems Warranty” under Emission Control System Warranty on pg. 21 for more information. Defects and performance for car and light-duty truck emission control systems are covered for the first 2 years or 24,000 miles, whichever comes first. From the first 2 years or 24,000 miles to 3 years or 36,000 miles defects in material or workmanship continue to be covered under the New Vehicle Limited Bumper-to-Bumper Warranty coverage. Specified major components are covered for the first 8 years or 80,000 miles, whichever comes first. Defects and performance for heavy duty truck emission control systems including those found in 6.6L Duramax® Diesel Engines are covered for the first 5 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first.
I have a VW that is part of the Dieselgate scandal. One of the reasons I decided to keep it and go with the fix (Gen 3's are fixable) is that they give you an amazing extended warranty that covers everything from fuel pumps, turbos, the DPF, the entire engine etc. Any questionable issues are to be in favor of the owner as part of the court order.
As far as oil dilution is concerned, I believe that's why VW allows no more than B20 biofuel. They say say that in higher concentrations, somehow some of the "bio" part gets past the rings and into the crankcase, effectually increasing the oil volume and diluting it. Or at least that's what I've read. I occasionally use B20 in the Dmax and the Tdi and in both vehicles the oil quantity has not increased at all.
Originally Posted By: BoiseRob
Originally Posted By: Fraser434
Originally Posted By: BoiseRob
Originally Posted By: sohccammer427
Wouldn't that shorten DPF life?
No... The Ram's 6.7 Cummins uses the same oil with similar exhaust after-treatment...
Its slightly different, ecodiesel uses "post injection" to create exhaust regeneration, with the engines own fuel injectors, where as the cummins uses injected fuel into the exhaust for exhaust regeneration. Other than that they both use a DPF/DOC/SCR system thats both in common.
Alot of the reason for C3 oil use is post injection regen, with bio blend diesel the fear is, bio diesel thickens the oil. Which appears to be more myth then fact. But the manufactures still went with it.
Again it comes down to what is your oil analysis telling you.
Well that sucks. I thought all manufacturers got away from the post injection cycle due to fuel dilution. That would explain why the oil had a strong odor during my last oil change. At least there was no increase in oil volume.
As far as the DPF, isn't there still a Federally mandatory 5 year emission warranty on all OEM emission systems?
It depends when it comes to warranty. Some states fallow CARB (CA regulations) which is I think is 7/70,000.
However, those states are mostly New England and OR and WA and CA of course.
Originally Posted By: Fraser434
Originally Posted By: BoiseRob
Originally Posted By: sohccammer427
Wouldn't that shorten DPF life?
No... The Ram's 6.7 Cummins uses the same oil with similar exhaust after-treatment...
Its slightly different, ecodiesel uses "post injection" to create exhaust regeneration, with the engines own fuel injectors, where as the cummins uses injected fuel into the exhaust for exhaust regeneration. Other than that they both use a DPF/DOC/SCR system thats both in common.
Alot of the reason for C3 oil use is post injection regen, with bio blend diesel the fear is, bio diesel thickens the oil. Which appears to be more myth then fact. But the manufactures still went with it.
Again it comes down to what is your oil analysis telling you.
Well that sucks. I thought all manufacturers got away from the post injection cycle due to fuel dilution. That would explain why the oil had a strong odor during my last oil change. At least there was no increase in oil volume.
As far as the DPF, isn't there still a Federally mandatory 5 year emission warranty on all OEM emission systems?
It depends when it comes to warranty. Some states fallow CARB (CA regulations) which is I think is 7/70,000.
However, those states are mostly New England and OR and WA and CA of course.
VM Motori data sheet
http://www.vmmotori.com/images/data_sheet/A428_DOHC-NEW.pdf
http://www.vmmotori.com/images/data_sheet/A428_DOHC-NEW.pdf
I've been studying the properties of the new ACEA E6 oils (which are still hard to fine in the US) mentioned upstream in this thread, and ash content is just slightly above what ACEA C3 limits.
I never have to add any make oil between OC's in my TDi and coupled with only a potential difference of a maximum of .2% more sulphated ash than what the actual specifications call for, I wonder just how much, if any, the E6's as opposed to the C3's would shorten DPF life?
I never have to add any make oil between OC's in my TDi and coupled with only a potential difference of a maximum of .2% more sulphated ash than what the actual specifications call for, I wonder just how much, if any, the E6's as opposed to the C3's would shorten DPF life?
Still going to stay with Dexos2 and 507.00 for my vehicles at this time, but will continue to study these new E6 contenders.
In addition to the Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5W-30 and Rotella T6 5w-30 I've found these two new E6 oils, although probably the same.
Phillips 66 Triton 5W-30 Euro HD
Kendall SHP 5w-30 Euro HD
Good luck finding these. Only the Delvac 1 LE appears to be available now and it's pricey. $156.50 / 4 gallons.
In addition to the Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5W-30 and Rotella T6 5w-30 I've found these two new E6 oils, although probably the same.
Phillips 66 Triton 5W-30 Euro HD
Kendall SHP 5w-30 Euro HD
Good luck finding these. Only the Delvac 1 LE appears to be available now and it's pricey. $156.50 / 4 gallons.
Originally Posted By: sohccammer427
I've been studying the properties of the new ACEA E6 oils (which are still hard to fine in the US) mentioned upstream in this thread, and ash content is just slightly above what ACEA C3 limits.
I never have to add any make oil between OC's in my TDi and coupled with only a potential difference of a maximum of .2% more sulphated ash than what the actual specifications call for, I wonder just how much, if any, the E6's as opposed to the C3's would shorten DPF life?
I still think Mobil1 5W30 ESP is best 5W30 C3 oil out there. I use it in fall/winter/spring. Ash level is at 0.6.
I've been studying the properties of the new ACEA E6 oils (which are still hard to fine in the US) mentioned upstream in this thread, and ash content is just slightly above what ACEA C3 limits.
I never have to add any make oil between OC's in my TDi and coupled with only a potential difference of a maximum of .2% more sulphated ash than what the actual specifications call for, I wonder just how much, if any, the E6's as opposed to the C3's would shorten DPF life?
I still think Mobil1 5W30 ESP is best 5W30 C3 oil out there. I use it in fall/winter/spring. Ash level is at 0.6.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
That's the low NOACK stuff too, eh?
Originally Posted By: 4WD
That's the low NOACK stuff too, eh?
Yeah, 5.6%.
That's the low NOACK stuff too, eh?
Yeah, 5.6%.
Castrol has an option as well, but I'm not sure if it's available in the States. Pricing, of course, I have no idea.
What about AMSOIL's AEL 5w-30 dexos2™ That is what I'm running in my 2014 Chevy Cruze Diesel.
Originally Posted By: sohccammer427
Still going to stay with Dexos2 and 507.00 for my vehicles at this time, but will continue to study these new E6 contenders.
In addition to the Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5W-30 and Rotella T6 5w-30 I've found these two new E6 oils, although probably the same.
Phillips 66 Triton 5W-30 Euro HD
Kendall SHP 5w-30 Euro HD
Good luck finding these. Only the Delvac 1 LE appears to be available now and it's pricey. $156.50 / 4 gallons.
Currently a $12/gal rebate and $60 on 5 gal pails going.
Delvac rebate
Still going to stay with Dexos2 and 507.00 for my vehicles at this time, but will continue to study these new E6 contenders.
In addition to the Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5W-30 and Rotella T6 5w-30 I've found these two new E6 oils, although probably the same.
Phillips 66 Triton 5W-30 Euro HD
Kendall SHP 5w-30 Euro HD
Good luck finding these. Only the Delvac 1 LE appears to be available now and it's pricey. $156.50 / 4 gallons.
Currently a $12/gal rebate and $60 on 5 gal pails going.
Delvac rebate
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