microGreen filters anyone
- Thread starter OLEJOE
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I've been using them for awhile now. No hard data but they seem to work well and be of good quality. I like the idea of them.
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1622963
Excellent report. Would like to see the UOA's.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1622963
Excellent report. Would like to see the UOA's.
Been using them for years. Its a quality filter.
MG themselves arent very forthcoming with hard data, but proffer lots of pieces of data.
There is lots of third party evidence of them being used by large fleets with all kinds of resources to test frequently. If you keep digging here you'll find this.
One poster here bought a fleet vehicle that had one on it.
Many here completely dismiss it because of lack of 4548-12 data, but no other manufacturer matches their claim to keep a sump valid for 30K with three filter changes.
It is quite unique with the PTFE micro disk. If you go look up PTFE filtering you'll find reams of data that supports the material filtering capabilities.
It is not the equivalent of a in line parallel filter with depth filtration like a Fleetguard strata pour Venturi or a Baldwin equivalent but I cannot find this for gasoline automobiles.
There are also longer run filters that claim to be good for 15K, so you can find longer rated filters, but I have not yet seen other manufacturers claim the same performance.
I do not run it out to 30K, but have gone to 20K. I typically run it in place of a premium filter.
UD
MG themselves arent very forthcoming with hard data, but proffer lots of pieces of data.
There is lots of third party evidence of them being used by large fleets with all kinds of resources to test frequently. If you keep digging here you'll find this.
One poster here bought a fleet vehicle that had one on it.
Many here completely dismiss it because of lack of 4548-12 data, but no other manufacturer matches their claim to keep a sump valid for 30K with three filter changes.
It is quite unique with the PTFE micro disk. If you go look up PTFE filtering you'll find reams of data that supports the material filtering capabilities.
It is not the equivalent of a in line parallel filter with depth filtration like a Fleetguard strata pour Venturi or a Baldwin equivalent but I cannot find this for gasoline automobiles.
There are also longer run filters that claim to be good for 15K, so you can find longer rated filters, but I have not yet seen other manufacturers claim the same performance.
I do not run it out to 30K, but have gone to 20K. I typically run it in place of a premium filter.
UD
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UD, I was just wondering about the ability of the PTFE to keep filtering vs stopping up since they claim such a low micron filtering ability. An amount of slightly dirty oil is better than none. I use filters with less efficiency and change them and the oil every 5 or 6 thou. No UOA's but no problems either. What are the maximum allowable particle sizes that are considered to be allowed the least amount of allowable wear? I just don't want to learn later that something better is available. I appreciate your response with the information you provided.
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
...It is quite unique with the PTFE micro disk. If you go look up PTFE filtering you'll find reams of data that supports the material filtering capabilities.
Earlier filters I've dissected have had PTFE filters in them. The more recent filters, however, have something that doesn't look like PTFE, but like particle board (for lack of a better description).
...It is quite unique with the PTFE micro disk. If you go look up PTFE filtering you'll find reams of data that supports the material filtering capabilities.
Earlier filters I've dissected have had PTFE filters in them. The more recent filters, however, have something that doesn't look like PTFE, but like particle board (for lack of a better description).
Originally Posted By: OLEJOE
UD, I was just wondering about the ability of the PTFE to keep filtering vs stopping up since they claim such a low micron filtering ability. An amount of slightly dirty oil is better than none. I use filters with less efficiency and change them and the oil every 5 or 6 thou. No UOA's but no problems either. What are the maximum allowable particle sizes that are considered to be allowed the least amount of allowable wear? I just don't want to learn later that something better is available. I appreciate your response with the information you provided.
Only a very tiny amount gets shunted through the PTFE micro disk. The main element is a full flow filter.
Even if it plugged completely the oil would continue to circulate through the main element.
UD
UD, I was just wondering about the ability of the PTFE to keep filtering vs stopping up since they claim such a low micron filtering ability. An amount of slightly dirty oil is better than none. I use filters with less efficiency and change them and the oil every 5 or 6 thou. No UOA's but no problems either. What are the maximum allowable particle sizes that are considered to be allowed the least amount of allowable wear? I just don't want to learn later that something better is available. I appreciate your response with the information you provided.
Only a very tiny amount gets shunted through the PTFE micro disk. The main element is a full flow filter.
Even if it plugged completely the oil would continue to circulate through the main element.
UD
Originally Posted By: kohnen
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
...It is quite unique with the PTFE micro disk. If you go look up PTFE filtering you'll find reams of data that supports the material filtering capabilities.
Earlier filters I've dissected have had PTFE filters in them. The more recent filters, however, have something that doesn't look like PTFE, but like particle board (for lack of a better description).
Cool. Which ones?
Perhaps as a part of the main element they used PTFE, but have you seen another parallel flow design using a PTFE micro disk?
Iv never seen anything like the MG'S micro disk, but for sure I haven't seen it all.
UD
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
...It is quite unique with the PTFE micro disk. If you go look up PTFE filtering you'll find reams of data that supports the material filtering capabilities.
Earlier filters I've dissected have had PTFE filters in them. The more recent filters, however, have something that doesn't look like PTFE, but like particle board (for lack of a better description).
Cool. Which ones?
Perhaps as a part of the main element they used PTFE, but have you seen another parallel flow design using a PTFE micro disk?
Iv never seen anything like the MG'S micro disk, but for sure I haven't seen it all.
UD
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: kohnen
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
...It is quite unique with the PTFE micro disk. If you go look up PTFE filtering you'll find reams of data that supports the material filtering capabilities.
Earlier filters I've dissected have had PTFE filters in them. The more recent filters, however, have something that doesn't look like PTFE, but like particle board (for lack of a better description).
Cool. Which ones?
Perhaps as a part of the main element they used PTFE, but have you seen another parallel flow design using a PTFE micro disk?
Iv never seen anything like the MG'S micro disk, but for sure I haven't seen it all.
UD
MG 301-1, which is what I've used as an oversized filter for '10 Yaris and '07 Prius. And, no, I haven't seen any parallel 3 micron parallel filter other than MG.
Originally Posted By: kohnen
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
...It is quite unique with the PTFE micro disk. If you go look up PTFE filtering you'll find reams of data that supports the material filtering capabilities.
Earlier filters I've dissected have had PTFE filters in them. The more recent filters, however, have something that doesn't look like PTFE, but like particle board (for lack of a better description).
Cool. Which ones?
Perhaps as a part of the main element they used PTFE, but have you seen another parallel flow design using a PTFE micro disk?
Iv never seen anything like the MG'S micro disk, but for sure I haven't seen it all.
UD
MG 301-1, which is what I've used as an oversized filter for '10 Yaris and '07 Prius. And, no, I haven't seen any parallel 3 micron parallel filter other than MG.
I am not sure how beneficial a microGreen filter is. The bypass part will reduce the contaminants somewhat, but it cannot help with depleted additives which will result in a low TBN. Nor will the filter help with a oxidized oil, change in viscosity.
The only situations I have come across where the TBN is still ok after 10K miles are pickup diesel engines with sumps that are 12 to 14 qts.
The only situations I have come across where the TBN is still ok after 10K miles are pickup diesel engines with sumps that are 12 to 14 qts.
Originally Posted By: Donald
I am not sure how beneficial a microGreen filter is. The bypass part will reduce the contaminants somewhat, but it cannot help with depleted additives which will result in a low TBN. Nor will the filter help with a oxidized oil, change in viscosity.
Going 30k miles (changing filters twice) on the same oil is a little scary. VII molecules could be destroyed in 10k. (Fleets I've googled on this are in warm climates anyway.) Viscosity could drift up or down.
Yet, fleets are using MicroGreen oil filters in several places around the country, sometimes using re-refined group II oils. I think its more a testament to how clean modern gas engines can run. You'd think the rings would stick or fuel dilution would spin some bearings.
I am not sure how beneficial a microGreen filter is. The bypass part will reduce the contaminants somewhat, but it cannot help with depleted additives which will result in a low TBN. Nor will the filter help with a oxidized oil, change in viscosity.
Going 30k miles (changing filters twice) on the same oil is a little scary. VII molecules could be destroyed in 10k. (Fleets I've googled on this are in warm climates anyway.) Viscosity could drift up or down.
Yet, fleets are using MicroGreen oil filters in several places around the country, sometimes using re-refined group II oils. I think its more a testament to how clean modern gas engines can run. You'd think the rings would stick or fuel dilution would spin some bearings.
Originally Posted By: Donald
I am not sure how beneficial a microGreen filter is. The bypass part will reduce the contaminants somewhat, but it cannot help with depleted additives which will result in a low TBN. Nor will the filter help with a oxidized oil, change in viscosity.
The only situations I have come across where the TBN is still ok after 10K miles are pickup diesel engines with sumps that are 12 to 14 qts.
The way it seems to work is that a buildup of smaller particles under the filters threshold contributes to TBN depletion, and removing these particles extend the life of TBN significantly because it doesn't have consume itself to keep the particles suspended.
This is why bypass filters extend sump life far beyond the capacity increase they provide.
UD
I am not sure how beneficial a microGreen filter is. The bypass part will reduce the contaminants somewhat, but it cannot help with depleted additives which will result in a low TBN. Nor will the filter help with a oxidized oil, change in viscosity.
The only situations I have come across where the TBN is still ok after 10K miles are pickup diesel engines with sumps that are 12 to 14 qts.
The way it seems to work is that a buildup of smaller particles under the filters threshold contributes to TBN depletion, and removing these particles extend the life of TBN significantly because it doesn't have consume itself to keep the particles suspended.
This is why bypass filters extend sump life far beyond the capacity increase they provide.
UD
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: Donald
I am not sure how beneficial a microGreen filter is. The bypass part will reduce the contaminants somewhat, but it cannot help with depleted additives which will result in a low TBN. Nor will the filter help with a oxidized oil, change in viscosity.
The only situations I have come across where the TBN is still ok after 10K miles are pickup diesel engines with sumps that are 12 to 14 qts.
The way it seems to work is that a buildup of smaller particles under the filters threshold contributes to TBN depletion, and removing these particles extend the life of TBN significantly because it doesn't have consume itself to keep the particles suspended.
This is why bypass filters extend sump life far beyond the capacity increase they provide.
I haven't seen any strong evidence the smaller particles help cause TBN depletion, although it might partially happen.
There was a fleet study done on Chevy V8 Tahoes back in 2005 which used excellent bypass filtration, but TBN was still a problem. ( See https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/oilbypass/oilbypassfinalreport.pdf ) "Degraded TBN followed by out-of-specification viscosity levels were the two predominate failure modes of the Tahoe oil."
TBN decrease is caused by sulphuric & carbonic acids countered by the buffers in oil. To some extent, these acids could be formed from some of the 2 to 10 micron sized soot particles (bypass & microgreen range) in some way unknown to me.
Anyway, the fleet tests show bypass filtration similar to MicroGreen's parallel method do something to increase longevity.
Fuel dilution is what could really ruin the 30,000 mile oil change interval party. Too much heat on weak base oils causes oxidation as anti-oxidants get depleted too. Engines survive, though may get stuck rings or sludge if taken too far. A risk.
Originally Posted By: Donald
I am not sure how beneficial a microGreen filter is. The bypass part will reduce the contaminants somewhat, but it cannot help with depleted additives which will result in a low TBN. Nor will the filter help with a oxidized oil, change in viscosity.
The only situations I have come across where the TBN is still ok after 10K miles are pickup diesel engines with sumps that are 12 to 14 qts.
The way it seems to work is that a buildup of smaller particles under the filters threshold contributes to TBN depletion, and removing these particles extend the life of TBN significantly because it doesn't have consume itself to keep the particles suspended.
This is why bypass filters extend sump life far beyond the capacity increase they provide.
I haven't seen any strong evidence the smaller particles help cause TBN depletion, although it might partially happen.
There was a fleet study done on Chevy V8 Tahoes back in 2005 which used excellent bypass filtration, but TBN was still a problem. ( See https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/oilbypass/oilbypassfinalreport.pdf ) "Degraded TBN followed by out-of-specification viscosity levels were the two predominate failure modes of the Tahoe oil."
TBN decrease is caused by sulphuric & carbonic acids countered by the buffers in oil. To some extent, these acids could be formed from some of the 2 to 10 micron sized soot particles (bypass & microgreen range) in some way unknown to me.
Anyway, the fleet tests show bypass filtration similar to MicroGreen's parallel method do something to increase longevity.
Fuel dilution is what could really ruin the 30,000 mile oil change interval party. Too much heat on weak base oils causes oxidation as anti-oxidants get depleted too. Engines survive, though may get stuck rings or sludge if taken too far. A risk.
My TBN was still above 2 after 30,000 miles using MG filters in my 2012 Mazda Skyactiv (DI engine). The oil was M! AFE 0W-20. These threads get started now and then and no one searches much. Here is my thread from October 2015.
DBMaster - MG
DBMaster - MG
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
My TBN was still above 2 after 30,000 miles using MG filters in my 2012 Mazda Skyactiv (DI engine). The oil was M! AFE 0W-20. These threads get started now and then and no one searches much. Here is my thread from October 2015. DBMaster - MG
Low fuel dilution saved you. Problem with those very long runs is that most of us are too lazy to send in a sample to Blackstone every 10,000 miles to check for problems like potential fuel dilution or excessive oxidation, when its about as cheap to just change the oil every 10k. And of course, ring packs can get sticky over long runs and not show symptoms until later.
Times are changing and Mobil 1 Annual Protection provides more confidence, at least to 20k miles.
My TBN was still above 2 after 30,000 miles using MG filters in my 2012 Mazda Skyactiv (DI engine). The oil was M! AFE 0W-20. These threads get started now and then and no one searches much. Here is my thread from October 2015. DBMaster - MG
Low fuel dilution saved you. Problem with those very long runs is that most of us are too lazy to send in a sample to Blackstone every 10,000 miles to check for problems like potential fuel dilution or excessive oxidation, when its about as cheap to just change the oil every 10k. And of course, ring packs can get sticky over long runs and not show symptoms until later.
Times are changing and Mobil 1 Annual Protection provides more confidence, at least to 20k miles.
The run I'm currently doing is with M1 EP 0W-20. I wasn't originally planning to do a UOA after 30,000 miles, but I might go ahead to increase the experience base. EP wasn't available to me when I started my last run in 2013. It takes me nearly two years to accumulate the mileage.
Also, since the lab was Blackstone I don't know that the fuel dilution numbers are that accurate. My drive nearly always involves high speed segments and very rarely involves exclusively short trips. I am not all that competent in interpreting the UOAs which is why I posted it. The responses I received indicated that the results were not bad.
Also, since the lab was Blackstone I don't know that the fuel dilution numbers are that accurate. My drive nearly always involves high speed segments and very rarely involves exclusively short trips. I am not all that competent in interpreting the UOAs which is why I posted it. The responses I received indicated that the results were not bad.
Did you run the same oil previous to using the microGreen filters as a comparison? If so, how did the UOAs compare to after using them?
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
My TBN was still above 2 after 30,000 miles using MG filters in my 2012 Mazda Skyactiv (DI engine). The oil was M! AFE 0W-20. These threads get started now and then and no one searches much. Here is my thread from October 2015.
DBMaster - MG
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
My TBN was still above 2 after 30,000 miles using MG filters in my 2012 Mazda Skyactiv (DI engine). The oil was M! AFE 0W-20. These threads get started now and then and no one searches much. Here is my thread from October 2015.
DBMaster - MG
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Did you run the same oil previous to using the microGreen filters as a comparison? If so, how did the UOAs compare to after using them?
Excellent question. No, I didn't. I used the UOA (the first I ever did) only to find out if I still had serviceable oil in the end. My practice in the past was 10K OCIs for all my vehicles with synthetic oil (whatever brand was on sale). My 1989 Honda Accord had pretty clean internals all the way up to 353,000 miles, when an accident ended my relationship with that car.
Do you think I should butt out of these MG threads? No matter what I say or offer up as experience the end result is always, "That's great, but I'll never leave my oil in for 30,000 miles."
Did you run the same oil previous to using the microGreen filters as a comparison? If so, how did the UOAs compare to after using them?
Excellent question. No, I didn't. I used the UOA (the first I ever did) only to find out if I still had serviceable oil in the end. My practice in the past was 10K OCIs for all my vehicles with synthetic oil (whatever brand was on sale). My 1989 Honda Accord had pretty clean internals all the way up to 353,000 miles, when an accident ended my relationship with that car.
Do you think I should butt out of these MG threads? No matter what I say or offer up as experience the end result is always, "That's great, but I'll never leave my oil in for 30,000 miles."
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