By feel, allowing for a crush washer if that's the type plug I'm putting in. I've put plenty of miles and changed plenty of plugs on iron engines and more than a few aluminum ones, and never had one back out or strip.
Which is more important when changing spark plugs
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^ yep
That's what I do tighten the plug we're I feel the crush washer is crushing then once that's done snug it up.
That's what I do tighten the plug we're I feel the crush washer is crushing then once that's done snug it up.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: i_hate_autofraud
If going into an aluminum cyclinder head, I always use anti-seize paste and reduce torque.
Bone dry threads 5 years later are likely seize, gall and strip-out next time!!
Yeah, I used to think that too until I got my Toyotas. The replacement NGK plugs always said not to use anti-sieze so I never have, and it's been a long time later and they've always come out OK. No seizing, galling nor stripping. Same for my Accord, but those don't go as long as the Toyota ones do.
Those long-life iridium plugs are manufactured with a tin plating on the threads to facilitate removal after extended use. Hope the plugs in my 04 Camry come out easy as they are the OEM plugs.
Originally Posted By: i_hate_autofraud
If going into an aluminum cyclinder head, I always use anti-seize paste and reduce torque.
Bone dry threads 5 years later are likely seize, gall and strip-out next time!!
Yeah, I used to think that too until I got my Toyotas. The replacement NGK plugs always said not to use anti-sieze so I never have, and it's been a long time later and they've always come out OK. No seizing, galling nor stripping. Same for my Accord, but those don't go as long as the Toyota ones do.
Those long-life iridium plugs are manufactured with a tin plating on the threads to facilitate removal after extended use. Hope the plugs in my 04 Camry come out easy as they are the OEM plugs.
Originally Posted By: robertcope
no anti-seize. Never had a problem.
In Texas its no problem, try that in the salt belt and you may have real trouble down the road. Its a recommendation based on liability not real world conditions, notice that even the manufacturers that don't recommend it quickly issues a TSB saying to use never seize when their warranty claims go through the roof as in the broken Ford plug fiasco.
Why would they recommend using it when it makes it easier to strip the threads when manufacturers torque specs are used without reducing torque and sloppy application could cause a cat damaging misfire putting them on the hook for blown cats that are under warranty.
Its easier for them to say no to never seize and hope they come out later, if not oh well, they are not on the hook for anything. The recommendation is only for their benefit not yours.
no anti-seize. Never had a problem.
In Texas its no problem, try that in the salt belt and you may have real trouble down the road. Its a recommendation based on liability not real world conditions, notice that even the manufacturers that don't recommend it quickly issues a TSB saying to use never seize when their warranty claims go through the roof as in the broken Ford plug fiasco.
Why would they recommend using it when it makes it easier to strip the threads when manufacturers torque specs are used without reducing torque and sloppy application could cause a cat damaging misfire putting them on the hook for blown cats that are under warranty.
Its easier for them to say no to never seize and hope they come out later, if not oh well, they are not on the hook for anything. The recommendation is only for their benefit not yours.
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: i_hate_autofraud
If going into an aluminum cyclinder head, I always use anti-seize paste and reduce torque.
Bone dry threads 5 years later are likely seize, gall and strip-out next time!!
Yeah, I used to think that too until I got my Toyotas. The replacement NGK plugs always said not to use anti-sieze so I never have, and it's been a long time later and they've always come out OK. No seizing, galling nor stripping. Same for my Accord, but those don't go as long as the Toyota ones do.
Those long-life iridium plugs are manufactured with a tin plating on the threads to facilitate removal after extended use. Hope the plugs in my 04 Camry come out easy as they are the OEM plugs.
Tin? It's trivalent plating, which is basically chrome. All plugs from NGK or Denso have that type of plating.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: i_hate_autofraud
If going into an aluminum cyclinder head, I always use anti-seize paste and reduce torque.
Bone dry threads 5 years later are likely seize, gall and strip-out next time!!
Yeah, I used to think that too until I got my Toyotas. The replacement NGK plugs always said not to use anti-sieze so I never have, and it's been a long time later and they've always come out OK. No seizing, galling nor stripping. Same for my Accord, but those don't go as long as the Toyota ones do.
Those long-life iridium plugs are manufactured with a tin plating on the threads to facilitate removal after extended use. Hope the plugs in my 04 Camry come out easy as they are the OEM plugs.
Tin? It's trivalent plating, which is basically chrome. All plugs from NGK or Denso have that type of plating.
I see no reason to use anti-seize especially if the plug manufacturer specifically advises against it. In addition to affecting the tightening torque, anti seize is a poor electrical conductor and may provide extra thermal insulation which affects the spark plug's heat range.
Originally Posted By: nobb
I see no reason to use anti-seize especially if the plug manufacturer specifically advises against it. In addition to affecting the tightening torque, anti seize is a poor electrical conductor and may provide extra thermal insulation which affects the spark plug's heat range.
I guess NGK is also wrong when they say to use anti seize on non plated plugs because it wi will alter the conductivity and affect the heat range.
Originally Posted By: NGK
All spark plugs that have a blackened or dull appearance on the metal body offer no protection against
seizing or bonding to the cylinder head and so it is with these spark plugs that anti-seize would be
required. A spark plug that has a shiny silver appearance on the metal body usually indicates that the
plug is manufactured with metal shell plating and therefore will not require anti-seize.
The issue is over tightening.
Originally Posted By: NGK
NGK tech support has received a number of tech calls from installers who have over-tightened spark plugs because of the use of anti-seize. Anti-seize compound can act as a lubricant altering torque values up to 20 percent, increasing the risk of spark plug thread breakage.
There was a thread not too long ago about stuck plugs that were the plated type, in the salt belt this is common enough and totally preventable but like anything else you have to be careful not just lather them up and throw them in.
I see no reason to use anti-seize especially if the plug manufacturer specifically advises against it. In addition to affecting the tightening torque, anti seize is a poor electrical conductor and may provide extra thermal insulation which affects the spark plug's heat range.
I guess NGK is also wrong when they say to use anti seize on non plated plugs because it wi will alter the conductivity and affect the heat range.
Originally Posted By: NGK
All spark plugs that have a blackened or dull appearance on the metal body offer no protection against
seizing or bonding to the cylinder head and so it is with these spark plugs that anti-seize would be
required. A spark plug that has a shiny silver appearance on the metal body usually indicates that the
plug is manufactured with metal shell plating and therefore will not require anti-seize.
The issue is over tightening.
Originally Posted By: NGK
NGK tech support has received a number of tech calls from installers who have over-tightened spark plugs because of the use of anti-seize. Anti-seize compound can act as a lubricant altering torque values up to 20 percent, increasing the risk of spark plug thread breakage.
There was a thread not too long ago about stuck plugs that were the plated type, in the salt belt this is common enough and totally preventable but like anything else you have to be careful not just lather them up and throw them in.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: robertcope
no anti-seize. Never had a problem.
In Texas its no problem, try that in the salt belt and you may have real trouble down the road. Its a recommendation based on liability not real world conditions, notice that even the manufacturers that don't recommend it quickly issues a TSB saying to use never seize when their warranty claims go through the roof as in the broken Ford plug fiasco.
Why would they recommend using it when it makes it easier to strip the threads when manufacturers torque specs are used without reducing torque and sloppy application could cause a cat damaging misfire putting them on the hook for blown cats that are under warranty.
Its easier for them to say no to never seize and hope they come out later, if not oh well, they are not on the hook for anything. The recommendation is only for their benefit not yours.
Good point about the salt/rust belt. I use NGK plugs and anti-seize. The last thing I want is fighting to get a rusted plug out, especially when a vehicle like my van, with cast iron heads might get new plugs every 10 years or longer.
Originally Posted By: robertcope
no anti-seize. Never had a problem.
In Texas its no problem, try that in the salt belt and you may have real trouble down the road. Its a recommendation based on liability not real world conditions, notice that even the manufacturers that don't recommend it quickly issues a TSB saying to use never seize when their warranty claims go through the roof as in the broken Ford plug fiasco.
Why would they recommend using it when it makes it easier to strip the threads when manufacturers torque specs are used without reducing torque and sloppy application could cause a cat damaging misfire putting them on the hook for blown cats that are under warranty.
Its easier for them to say no to never seize and hope they come out later, if not oh well, they are not on the hook for anything. The recommendation is only for their benefit not yours.
Good point about the salt/rust belt. I use NGK plugs and anti-seize. The last thing I want is fighting to get a rusted plug out, especially when a vehicle like my van, with cast iron heads might get new plugs every 10 years or longer.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: nobb
I see no reason to use anti-seize especially if the plug manufacturer specifically advises against it. In addition to affecting the tightening torque, anti seize is a poor electrical conductor and may provide extra thermal insulation which affects the spark plug's heat range.
I guess NGK is also wrong when they say to use anti seize on non plated plugs because it wi will alter the conductivity and affect the heat range.
Originally Posted By: NGK
All spark plugs that have a blackened or dull appearance on the metal body offer no protection against
seizing or bonding to the cylinder head and so it is with these spark plugs that anti-seize would be
required. A spark plug that has a shiny silver appearance on the metal body usually indicates that the
plug is manufactured with metal shell plating and therefore will not require anti-seize.
NGK doesn't make plugs without plated threads. What they might venture about other brands is pretty irrelevant to what they would recommend for their own plugs.
Originally Posted By: nobb
I see no reason to use anti-seize especially if the plug manufacturer specifically advises against it. In addition to affecting the tightening torque, anti seize is a poor electrical conductor and may provide extra thermal insulation which affects the spark plug's heat range.
I guess NGK is also wrong when they say to use anti seize on non plated plugs because it wi will alter the conductivity and affect the heat range.
Originally Posted By: NGK
All spark plugs that have a blackened or dull appearance on the metal body offer no protection against
seizing or bonding to the cylinder head and so it is with these spark plugs that anti-seize would be
required. A spark plug that has a shiny silver appearance on the metal body usually indicates that the
plug is manufactured with metal shell plating and therefore will not require anti-seize.
NGK doesn't make plugs without plated threads. What they might venture about other brands is pretty irrelevant to what they would recommend for their own plugs.
What does your reply have to do with conductivity and heat range?
Its general info about anti seize plugs without plating not about other brands. NGK did and still may make non plated or a different plating on plugs mostly for OE.
The fact is the plating is not a good as they claim under some conditions, we still see stuck plugs even with the plating.
Its general info about anti seize plugs without plating not about other brands. NGK did and still may make non plated or a different plating on plugs mostly for OE.
The fact is the plating is not a good as they claim under some conditions, we still see stuck plugs even with the plating.
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